NUMBER 10 by Ken Kaufmann DECEMBER 1997
FEEDBACK TO REGISTER NO. 9
I received two long letters from Alan Schier last year in which he wrote in part:
It was great to get a newsletter again. Scripps Downing had been helpful to us in locating a original gas tank and straps from Barry Jensen, what a rare find thanks to the Register. He also kept us informed of possible engines showing up.
I bought our Model C S/N C2525 approx. 11 years ago from Gary Leuthauser who became very sick at the time of the transaction. I was dragging parts from his Dads basement until the neighbor pitched in, in the summer heat as my help, since Gary was too sick. I ended up with some of his V8 Model D spares as his father didnít know what was what, and I came up short items which were suppose to be there. I have what should be a Model D radiator and shell, front axle spring fittings, 2 springs, engine cradle, and one rough wheel ring.
I was surprised to hear of Mr. Geersís parts and the V8 engines. I may try to swap for Model C parts as Iím still struggling along on my project.
My rear end gear are stripped including the cut down rear Gary sold me. Itís the early type with band brakes like Mr. Pfund always complained about. I had meet him and saw his car again as we stumbled upon it at the Owl Head Museum last year before the other Scrippsís arrived. I have also seen the Palen car.
I have too many left #4 Houk caps and not enough rights. I did get some spare engines parts from Gary.
Our Model C is unique in that it has the smooth flowing rear fenders such as the 1915 spec sheet with the lady driving. All other Cís Iíve seen have the hump at the front of the rear fender. Mr. Pfund didnít believe me, but Gary told me this when I bought it, unrestored.
EDITORíS NOTES ON REAR FENDERS
Please see REGISTER No. 9 page 4 to see the early 1915 spec sheet Alan refers to. Also see page 3 for the illustrated "A Masterpiece" ad that was printed in the June 17, 1915 MOTOR AGE that shows the later style hump type rear fenders. I have seen actual photographs of Model Cís printed in both English and US trade publications in June 1915 that proves at least some Model Cís had the later style hump type rear fenders by early June. Another reference in the English LIGHT CAR for September 22, 1915, shows rego # EM-500 with the hump type rear fenders and equipped with electric door locks. This would date the hump type being used as early as mid-May, before the end of the electric door locks at car number C400. On the other hand, I have also seen ads dated as late as November 1915 that illustrate the early smooth style rear fenders and some sales brochures that illustrate both type within the same brochures! I figure C2525 was assembled around the end of August 1915, with the start of the 1916 Model Year beginning at C3101 about the first of October 1915.
SMOOTH VS HUMP TYPE
What I think happened was Scripps-Booth had a fender supplier problem back in 1915. Remember, the Automobile Quarterly article that quoted a letter to JSB in March 1915, that they "simply could not get the fenders." So they probably were forced to use two different vendors for rear fenders during the 1915 Model run, but was still stuck with the first vendorís contract for a final 500-1000 sets. It appears the C Coupe also used these earlier smooth type rear fenders, even into the 1917 model year, so perhaps the intent was to use up the stock of this smooth type rear fenders on the Coupes. However, the orders didnít exactly flood in for these Coupes, so they used up these smooth type fenders on a batch of Roadsters towards the end of the 1915 Model run.
The first theory I thought of is, they could of used up this surplus stock of smooth type rear fenders for the RHD export models that were going to England, and no one over there would have been the wiser, but perhaps the hump type was more then just a stylish improvement, and this hump design solved a cracking problem, and stiffen this fender up for the more flexible roadster chassis, and it was thought that fender cracking problems in the more demanding export market would be harder and more expensive to support then the easier New England City market - especial since the Scripps- Booth was gaining a reputation as a Ladies Car. In any case, none of the export models I have seen photos of, are equipped with these smooth type rear fenders.
I thought I would get a clue on consulting the Model C Parts List, but it list only one set of part numbers for all Model Cís up to the 1917 Cís at C6200, with 15C414 for the right side and 15C415 for the right. However, since my parts list was printed in 1917, perhaps by then all the smooth type rear fenders were used up in both Coupe production and parts departments sales, and now only the improved hump type were being offered for parts service? I would be interested in a copy of a earlier edition Model C Parts List (there must of been one printed in 1915 that covered only up to C3100?) that would indicate two different sets of part numbers for these two different types of rear fenders. Also, has anyone seen a parts book supplement that covers the C Coupes and/or RHD Export models?
ALANíS LETTER CONTINUES
As for Garyís Model D, he told me a banker from the DC area bought it from him approx. 13 years ago and drove it home to DC. Gary told me this approx. 11 years ago. Garyís father is no longer alive now either.
I was thrilled at the dealers list. I had heard of a dealer in California really selling them fast.
We have a letter signed in by James Scripps Booth concerning his cars, I believe early 50ís, Gary passed on to us. Our research came a lot from Rutgers College Library on Scripps. I had contacted Englandís National Motor Museum and Vintage Sports Car Club approx. 3 years ago and no Scripps Booths are known to survive intake. One partial car was passed on for a Ďspecialí but couldnít get the owner to reply back. I had talked to the previous owner by mail.
Our car still has original leather I hope to save. It was originally blue-black. We have found some items at Hershey but not much anymore turns up. I almost bought a S.B. cyclecar front axle and hubs there, but my wife wouldnít let me hang it over the mantle.
If you can be of any help on rear gears, it would be great. It is our biggest problem.
Sincerely, Alan & Sue Schier
EDITORíS FIRST REPLY
It was good to hear from you and receive some feed back on the Register. I also got a phone call from JSB grandson, Daniel Marinette from NYC - but that is all I have I heard from to date.
Scripps Downingís files are very complete. He filed every letter he (and Ledyard Pfund who started the Register back in 1981) ever received and filed copies of his own correspondence under each S-B Ownerís name and by date. Scripps even made notes concerning his phone conversations in these files. And he posted a photograph of #C2525 that you once sent in to your file. So I already knew something about you and your carís history from the previous letters you have written in.
I have been involved with the old car hobby since I got my first car at Seventeen years old, back in 1962, a 1927 Chevrolet Coupe that needs restoration, is still all apart, and I still have it. The next year, I bought a nice original Ď27 Coupe for a tour car and it is still running! I drove it last weekend around town. I am a early member of the Vintage Chevrolet Club (VCCA) and first read about the Scripps Booth car around 1964 in this clubís magazine and was excited about what a good looking car it was. It looks very sporty with the vee radiator, five wire wheels, and torpedo stern. The first S-B I ever saw was in the Zimmerman Museum in PA in 1971 (Scripps Downing car). I was somewhat interested in buying a roadster that was advertised for $3500 in C&P in 1972 in PA, that Gilbert Stafford ended up getting as #G1351. Instead I bought a 1970 Corvette convertible, which I only kept for a year. My current projects are two Ď55 Nomads that my Eighteen year old son and I have been working on the last two years (I gave him the rusty Nomad I got back in 1967, and I am working on the nice one I bought in 1968) and still have a few more years to finish both up.
Like you, I also have a soft spot for old English cars. I worked for a BMC, Triumph, Jag, & Roots dealer in Monrovia, back in the Sixties when I was going to college. My first new car I ordered from England (which I still have running & license-in fact, my regular car) is a 1964 Austin Cooper S (1070cc engine) which still has the original (faded) Tartan Red paint! I believe my Mini Cooper was in the first shipment of the new ĎSí models to the West Coast - taking delivery in January 1964. It is still a blast to drive this car and it always brings a smile to me.
I notice you have the original engine and a spare engine for #C2525? Can you send me both these engine serial number for our records. Is there any other casting #ís or date codes on your blocks or cylinder heads? Have you found a serial number marked on your transmission?
Please let me know.
ALANíS HERSHEY Ď96 REPORT
I arrived back from Hershey last night. My Dad offered to pay for the hotel and drive, so couldnít pass it up this year . Iíve been so busy with yard projects and our 1 1/2 years old baby.
I followed up on the October 1996 Hemmings as on "18" S.B. remains. He wants $300 for frame rails, front springs, 2 hubs, 2 wheels, trans, and speedo and misc. He so far refuses to sell parts to make a speedster. It has wood spoke wheels Model G by the sounds of it. He remembers the car together as a kid. Call him in Pennsylvania at 814-942-8769.
It just so happens I found a flat radiator and shell with a beautiful emblem at Hershey. They bought it for a speedster project but backed out, asking $275, but probably take less to a S.B. person "owner." Contact Jan S. Handley at 302-239-5225,
I also found a emblem restorer who had one S.B. emblem left for $125.
I was ready to give up on my S,B, parts find when I found some #4 Houk caps. I have had too many lefts and not enough rights, but finally found another right. I talked the Model T parts guy down to $100 for a left and right and went away grinning. His wife was just about ready to pack them away.
I am also looking for spokes and have located some misc. wheels out west - none at Hershey. I can only afford so much at a time but know how rare these parts are. I found a couple of tail lights at Hershey but didnít buy one as we purchased one at the pre-16 meet at Reinbeck, NY 2 years back. I saw a couple of Atwater Kent distributors and spark boxes, a speedo and amp gauge for the Model C. I walked so much my upper legs hurt and slowed me down, but it was worth it.
I have a nice S.B. sill plate I restored, thinking it was for my Model C, and it was left over from Garyís "D." I ended up with a number of "D" parts.
I plan on writing G. Geers and letting him know I have a extra #4 left cap now, and maybe other contacts on them, and also my rad, shell, engine mounts brace, springs and misc. "D" pieces from Garyís restoration.
Under S.B. owner address, please list our car as a 2915, not 1916.
Till I find more, Alan Schier
EDITORíS SECOND REPLY & UPDATES
It was good to hear from you again. Thanks for updating me on your Hershey adventures. I have been to Hershey only once in 1971, when I drove my Ď57 Chevy Convertible from Illinois to PA and spent the week staying with relatives in Mannheim, which is only about an hour away. I remembering doing a lot of walking in the three days I was there. Glad you found something you needed.
I also saw the October Hemmings ad for the misc. stuff - sort of get a little tired on reading the "S" section for S-B listings month after month and not finding anything. So was surprised to see someone had some S-B parts for sale for once - thanks for following up on this ad and reporting it.
I see James Cookís 1916 Model C was offered at the auction down in Louisiana in early October, but donít know if it sold or for what? Hopefully there will be an auction report in OLD CAR Magazine.
I have corrected the Owners listing for your 1915 Model C - thanks for pointing this out.
I also just updated the Register to add Scripps three daughters to it - they are going to try and keep his Model C in the family. Please notice that there is still a question mark for your engine serial number. I think you have the original engine and a spare engine for #2525? Can you send me both these engine serial number for our records. Is there any other casting #ís or date codes on your blocks or cylinder heads? Have you found a serial number marked on your transmission?
Please let me know so I can report these numbers.
SCRIPPS-BOOTH IN EUROPE
This past month I have been in touch with a GM/Chevrolet historian in England who enjoys being a detective in searching out GM history. I mentioned to him your research back in 1985 on Scripps Booth in England, and he seem interested in trying to dig up some further information.
I received a package of Scripps-Booth material from Ledgeís widow, which she found during a recent move from her old home to a condo. One interesting piece was two letters back in 1983 from a man in Norway that has a nice 1917 Model D. He did some research and found they sold over 100 Scripps-Booth in Norway from 1915-22, and he has a list of each one by model and Car No. I of course wrote the address in Oslo, Norway that was listed on his 1983 letter, but havenít heard back from either him or the Post Office - so I guess the letter got delivered to someone? Hopefully, I will soon get a reply - but at least there was a Model D in Europe in 1983!
WELCOME SCRIPPSí DAUGHTERS
Kathy Anane from Springfield, Illinois, sent me a nice note last
year, that she and her sisters, Susan Brutlag and Debbie Downing, the daughters
of T. Scripps Downing, inherited their fatherís 1916 Model C. Kathy mentioned
she has had two offers to buy the car, but she and Susan are willing to
learn the operation and maintenance of this car and think they can care
for it properly, so they donít want to sell it. Upon my recommendation,
Kathy joined the Vintage Chevrolet Club of America, that recognize the
pre-GM Scripps-Booths in its Forerunner Class, in order to belong to a
old car club to qualify for low cost antique car insurance.
LETTER TO CHILE
Thank you for your letter of May 3rd and the photo of your beautiful Model D. It is interesting you were able to trace back your cars history, since you are only the second owner.
I have added your name and you will receive Register No. 9 in a month or so. No. 9 is the last issue that the late Scripps Downing put together - I just have to finish it up and print it.
This is the latest Owners and Cars list which I have revised from where Scripps Downing left off before he died, and included your name and car. It will also be included in Register No. 9 mailing - I thought you would like an advance copy.
I would be interested in learning about your Model D. Is it original or has it been recently restored? Do you have the 1917 Scripps-Booth Instruction Book (owners manual) or Parts List. I have the Instruction book and could make you a copy of it, if you donít have one.
I have been looking for years for a copy of the Model D Parts List and havenít been able to fine one. Perhaps, you could make me a copy of this parts list if you have a copy.
Your Model D is quite rare, with only 3 others known, but only 2 owners are currently on this Register. They both have the engine serial No. prefix "FS", while yours is "FES". Perhaps the "E" stands for Export Model? Please confirm this "E." Is your Model D left or right hand drive?
Do you Know the VIN No. or CAR NO. which was stamped on a little brass plate on the front seat heal board (right side)?. I would like to list this Car number in the Register.
Welcome to the Scripps-Booth Register - there is no dues - this is just my hobby! Lets keep in touch.
CHILEAN MODEL D UPDATE
Thanks you very much for adding my car in the Register and for your prompt answer. Regarding the information that you requested.
I donít have any original literature that came with the car. I bought the car almost fifteen years after the death of the original owner. In that time all the books related to the car were lost. I would be very pleased if you can make me a copy of your instructions manual.
Regarding the engine serial number, there was a mistake in my letter, the serial number is FSE 1771 (sorry about the FES). The car gas left hand drive, same as US cars, and the VIN is lost (I never saw it).
Mr. Villegas (the Original owner), had two identical cars and he used one as a parts car, from that second car I have the engine (FSO 1464), the gearbox, the rear axle, the vacuum tank, and the headlights.
It is interesting to note that the Models Dís were sold new in Chile as late as 1919. Attached you will find copies of adds that appeared in Chilean magazines in 1918, and copies of "LA NACION" newspaper, January 19, 1919, showing a trip made by a Model D, organized by the importing company. The trip was from Concepcion to Coquimbo, 1100 km
Thank you very much again. If you need further information, donít hesitate to contact me.
REQUESTED MORE CASTING/DATE NO.íS
Thank you for your letter and the two advertising copies and the newspaper clippings. Your ads were the first Scripps-Booth overseas ads I have seen.
I have a report of another Model D V-8 that is located in Norway. I have written the owner, but have not received a reply. It was reported about 7 -8 Model Dís were sold in Norway, and I know several more were sold in England.
Here are copies of the Model D Instruction Book (owners manual) and the Warner Electrical Instruction Book. I have also made you copies of the few pages I have from the Model D Parts List that only covers some engine parts. I hope they are helpful to you. If you have any other Scripps-Booth information, ads, or data - please make copies for me.
Thanks for correcting your Model D engine serial No. prefix "FS." I donít know what the O or E following the "FS" is for, but I would guess O might be for Overseas, while E would be export?
You might still be able to find the VIN No. or CAR No. for both your cars, even thought the little brass plate on the front seat heal board (right side) is missing. There is a 1917 Model D engine and transmission in the U.S. that is Serial Number FS 73, FERRO Mod 13 stamped on the engine, with 3 3 17 D324 stamped on the transmission. I would guess the 3 3 17 is a date code for the transmission on March 3, 1917, but I bet the D324 is the actually car number from which this engine and transmission was removed! Please checks both your car and parts car transmission for any numbers and let me know. Did you find any other date codes, casting numbers, or distributor, starter, or generator serial numbers on either or your engine? I would like to list these Car number/Transmission numbers in the newsletter.
MODEL D DATA & PARTS WANTED
Thank you for your last letter and the copies of S-B literature. They are very interesting and helpful.
I am sending to you an as that was published in "La Revista del Mundo" (December 1920: edited by Doubleday, Page & Co.) and a copy of "Eclipse-Bendix Drive Instruction Book," but I am not sure if this instruction book came with the car, because the original ownerís son gave it to me a few years later after I bought the car. What do you think?
The serial and casting numbers are the following:
Engine casting numbers (Both Engines):
7-11-16 (passenger side)
5025 (driver side)
Gear box: 1 17 D3882 (I couldnít find other numbers)
5 1 17 D3779 (Parts car # FSO 1464)
Gear box casting numbers: 14333 and 14362 (Both)
Remy 214A Distributor number: 1243 (I only have one)
Starter and generator: no serial numbers
Do you know where I can find the following parts?:
Houk Wire Wheels (two)
Gear box cover
Distributor cap and rotor (NOS)
I will be very pleased if you can give me the information above, and I hope the serial numbers and the copies will be useful for you. Regards, Gigio
MUST BE TRANSMISSION SERIAL NUMBER
Thank you for your letter and the color advertising copies and the Bendix Drive Instruction book. Yes, I think this little book was part of the instructions that came with the car. Probably the Stewart Vacuum Tank instructions was another item that would have come with the car.
Thanks for looking for the serial and casting numbers. It now appears the D3882 and D3779 serial numbers found on your transmissions are the TW Warner Transmission serial numbers and not the Scripps-Booth Car Numbers. The TW Warner transmission was also use on the Kissel, Davis, and Oakland cars, but not sure if these were are the same model transmission as used on your Model D V-8? Chevrolet also used the TW Warner Transmissions and I think they ended up purchase the company. You might have a hard time finding a transmission cover. The Disk Clutch is a Goodspeed and the 3/4 Float Rear Axle is manufactured by Russell.
Inclosed is the Remy cap and rotor illustrations and part numbers. Again these will be hard to find, but I will keep a look out for you and place your wants in the next newsletter.
I am not sure what the tail light looks like, but think it is just about 3"-3 1/2" round red lamp that is mounted on the left rear fender.
MODEL B-39 TOURING IS FOUND
I saw your ad in the Jan-Feb 1997 Horseless Carriage GAZETTE, concerning Scripps-Booth cars. I purchased a 1921 S-B Model B-39 Touring in Oakland, Calif. in 1958 for $325. I was 22 years old and recently discharged from the USMC. This was my first chance to own an antique car so I bought it and immediately became am HCCA member. I was hooked on antique cars long before 1958 however, and by then I already had a lot of literature collected. The first S-B I every saw was in Redwood City, Calif. around 1946 or Ď47. I remember the car like it was yesterday. It was a PRE-GM small roadster with wire wheels and pointed radiator. It was parked on a street and looked like a car which was driven daily. It had dark brown or possibly maroon paint and was probably all original.
Back to my S-B. I bought the car from an older couple named FRICK. I didnít get much information from them about the car except that it had been impounded as part of a criminal case. It must have been stored for a long time as there was almost no rust any where on the chassis or body. These are some of the features of the car when I bought it:
PAINT - Repainted Dark Blue, Black Fenders and Splash Aprons. Natural Wood Wheels.
TIRES - Fairly new 32X4 Firestones "Non Skid" Tread.
UPHOLSTERY & TOP - Original Leather Seats "Grain" Material on Doors, with Pockets for Tools, Etc. Two Oval Curtain Lights at Rear of Top.
RADIATOR - Flat, Shell Chrome Plated (not correct) Shell Design resembles Pierce-Arrow. Dog-Bone Radiator Cap
ENGINE - 6 Cyl OHV (Northway) Valve Rocker and Push rods exposed. Remy Starter and Generator. Bore & Stroke = 2 13/16 X 4 3/4 inch,
There were a few odd features about the engine. First, the entire exterior of the block and head was machined or finished smooth. Also, the crankshaft and connecting rods were all finished smooth. The piston head had dime sized holes bored around the skirts. The crankshaft was bored and external piped with copper tubes for pressure lubrication. The water pumped and fan was apparently not original. The pump housing was elongated and an auger type impeller was used. The fan was a 3 blade design with single row (I found out about the 3 blade double row later). I had overheating trouble with the engine. I only drove my S-B a few times and it got pretty hot when I drove it in a parade in Chico, Calif. around 1961-62.
I worked at Harrahs Automobile Collection from 1965 to 1979, and I offered my S-B to Bill Harrahs for his showroom. The car only needed a new top to bring it to "cosmetic: condition for the showrooms at the time around 1970. I sold the car to Ted Bacon, Minden/Gardnerville, Nevada in the 70ís. I saw Ted at the "Hot Summer Nights" Swap Meet in Reno in 1995, and he still had the S-B in his collection.
I am sending a copy of an old photo showing a pre GM S-B car and another make. I have no information on this picture - nothing written on it.
The cone clutch on this car I could never seem to adjust it to engage without either slipping, or grabbing or causing the whole car to shudder when letting out the pedal.
I just remembered something interesting. My magazines around 1917-18 have ads for Crow-Elhart cars. These ads show small roadsters with wire wheel that show a close resemblance to the Scripps-Booth light cars of 1916-17. This is especially so in the cowl - windshield shape and the fenders of C-E cars. I have always wondered if there is a relationship between C-E and S-B cars around 1916-17?
Regards, Mike Waldron, Reno
SIX (A OR B) FRAME & AXLES FOR SALE
17 Feb 1997
I saw your ad in the GAZETTE regarding Scripps-Booths. I have a chassis (or partial chassis) that some of your members may be interested in purchasing. It consist of the frame, front end, rear end, steering box, misc. fenders, aprons, etc. (for patterns). What is there should be usable. You may want to include that information in your nest newsletter. That could help one of your members and help me also. Iím not sure about the year model. Perhaps if you could send me some information about how to identify year model by what I have, I could get close to what year model it is.
Sincerely, Dick Braund.
24 Feb 1997
Thank you very much for your assistance and for the pictures of the chassis for the various models of Scripps Booths. I compared them with my chassis and it definitely is a 1919 - 22 Six - Series A or B. Hence, I went out into the snow and checked over what is there:
Frame Assy., Rusty but solid.
Front Axle Assy with springs and steering linkage.
1 hub is missing. Remnants of wood still on other.
Rear Axle Assy with hubs, springs, etc.
Drive Shaft and rear U-Joint.
Rear Fenders & Right front Fender for patterns.
Front Apron for pattern
Belly Pan for pattern
Hood Sills and hood catches
Headlamp forks and front fender braces
Iíd like to sell the unit for $500.00 and would consider parting it out , but would prefer to sell as a unit. Thanks much in advance for running this ad in your newsletter. (608) 462-5200. Richard Braund
N1862 Hwy 80, Elroy, WI 53929
PARTS FOR SALE LEAD
I received a call at work this last summer from a Carol Camp at (847)853-9463 who has a Scripps Booth Front and Rear axle for sale, but didnít know for what model or year. I believed Carol said these axles assy. were stored in a barn that was being sold and would take some pictures to send me, but I never got them. I remember asking her if the axle hubs had demountable wheels. but donít remember what she said, except I would think if she said they were Houk hubs, I wouldnít have forgotten?
"SCOTTSDALE" MODEL G FINDS US!
My Husband Harry and I own a lovely original 1917 Scripps Booth Roadster, VIN C 2091. We purchased it around 1981 from David Bundy here in Casper.
Our friend was telling us that you put out an annual newsletter, sales catalog, instructions & parts list and Register update. He found this in one of his antique car magazines.
We would like very much to be listed on the Register, and receive copies that you mail out.
I guess we could say that our first love in cars is our 1913 Stanley Steamer 5 passenger Touring car, but if that happens to be giving us problems. We enjoy touring with our local car club in the Scripps Booth.
I am enclosing a photo of the Scripps Booth and Harry as they were going to take a bride and groom to a wedding reception. Most Sincerely, Margaret Farrar
MODEL G HAS A REAR MOUNTED GAS TANK
I added this car to the Roster as G2091 until we can get more information. This is the same red, with white wire wheels, Model G that Scripps Downing inspected of at the Kruse Auction in Scottsdale in January 1980. It is definitely a Model G, with a rear mounted gas tank and a Steward vacuum tank, while all Model Cís had cowl mounted gas tanks that gravity feed the carburetor. Perhaps someone installed a Model C serial # nameplate or the letter G was just miss read as a C? In the REGISTERís files, I found the following letter written to James Cook, from the former owner David Bundy, after Bundy advertised the car for sale in Hemmings:
December 21, 1977
This car is all original, even the top and seats. The engine is a Sterling 2 7/8 X 4 inches, valve in head, high speed type, cast enbloc with gearset unit, circulating splash oiling. Motor develops 18 horsepower.
Wheels, five Houk Triple-Laced detachable wire 30" X 3 1//2" with wide hubs. Axle, Annular ball bearing throughout; Rear, Full-Floating; Front, I beam.
There Ďs never been any bodywork done on this car, nor engine work. Paint is the only thing changed. I have all tools that go with car and original owner manual. Car has 8,000 miles on it. Thank you for writing,
Mr. Bundy was obviously quoting his Motor and Wheels description from the same 1915 Specifications that was printed on page 4 of the No. 9 REGISTER. Hopefully, since this low mileage original roadster has resurfaced, after being classified as "unknown" since 1980, the Farrarís will help us document what the tools that were supplied with this car and the many other little details that will help other restorers. Now, if the current owner of Garyís Model D will only resurface, having been unknown for almost as many years.
MODEL D ENGINE IS IN A GOOD HOME
I got a phone car from Oren Isham in Washington, who recently bought from Tom Lieb (of SCAT who manufactures racing crankshafts), the Model D Ferro engine that was restored by Eric Davis back in the 80ís. Oren, who has a nice collection of engines, already owns a Sterling (Model C) closed valve engine. I asked him to send me the following data from his engines:
Thank you for the REGISTER No. 9. The cut away with part #ís of the Sterling Model 20 engine is of special interest to me. I am sorry to hear of Scripps death. I only talked on the phone with him a couple of times. Yes, I got the V-8 from Tom Lieb.
FERRO Data: S-B Model D. Casting date in the "V" near the distributor and buried under much pain is 4-13-16 or 1-16-16. The engine Model and serial # are located on the engine just to the rear of the oil regulator:
F S 73 Ferro Model 13. These #ís are stamped on the top of the transmission case, just forward of the top cover: 3 3 17 D324. Remy distributor Model is 2140A. Carburetor is Zenith, with a Wagner starter.
STERLING Data: S-B Model C. Engine serial # is 11829 and is stamped at the base of cylinder #1 on the right side. The transmission # is TW904 and is located on top of the case just forward of the top cover. I donít see any casting dates on this engine and transmission.
I find the S-B to have a interesting history and played an important part in the automobile development.
Thanks again, Oren Isham
DIDNíT FIND ANY CASTING NUMBERS
The TW prefix found on the transmission case must stand for TW Warner company that also supplied the transmissions for the Model D. I am surprised to learn that the Sterling Model 20 engine (closed valves) had no identification casting dates, casting part numbers, or foundry code letters or marks.
It is known that the Sterling Model 19 engine (Serial Numbers 3001 up to 6000), that was the 3" bore open valve engine, had a casting part #645 F. This # was often confused with the stamped serial numbers on vehicle registration records. The parts book list the #645 as the cylinder block service part number, so perhaps the prefix "F" stands for Ferro Machine and Foundry Company, who is believed to have supplied Sterling with gray iron castings.
MODEL C ADVERTISED FOR SALE
Barry Jensen advertised his 1917 Model C Roadster, car # C8126 which has RHD, in the May 1997 HEMMINGS. It was listed under the "S" Cars for Sale as having new paint in 1996, runs nice, excellent car at $20,000 obo. (810)659-9968 evenings in Michigan.
I have no report if this car has changed hand. I will send this REGISTER No. 10 to Barry, and it is hope he will pass it on to the new owner or advise me who it is?
ROCKET ADVERTISED FOR SALE
Larry Sybesma, also in Michigan at (616) 335-9091, advertised his 1914 cycle car for sale in the 9/97 HEMMINNGS under the Pre-1916 Vehicles for sale. It was listed as a two-passenger open car, very restorable, for the collector who wants what no other has, $45,000.
MYSTERY ROCKET IN KANSAS
OLD CARS WEEKLY for September 25, 1997 printed under READERS PHOTOS this most interesting photo. It was sent in by Gary Hoopes of Princeton, Kansas, and the caption called the vehicle a cyclecar that was popular for a short time during 1914. It was reported that "the two passengers sat in tandem, and the rear wheels were driven via a belt on the right side of the car, like a motorcycle. A first glance, the car appears to be parked in the infield of a race track, but we think itís actually sitting in a barnyard, as the "track" enters a barn in the upper left-hand corner of the photo. Itís curious that the car is wearing only one tire chain, on the right-side front - perhaps that was the baldest of the four."
LETTER TO OLD CARS WEEKLY
December 1, 1997
OLD CARS WEEKLY
700 E. State St.
Iola, WI 54990-0001
Itís a Rocket!
I can identify the 1914 tandem cyclecar, that was the Reader Photos in the September 25, 1997 issue, as the most successful and well known cyclecar, designed by the famous artist and engineer, James S Booth, of the Detroit newspaper fame. Itís the 1914 Scripps-Booth Rocket! You printed an excellent photo of the Rocket on page 16 of the February 27, 1997 issue. The rear wheels are actually driven by two V type belts on both the left and right side. There are 5 known Rockets listed in the current 1997 SCRIPPS-BOOTH REGISTER, a 10 page newsletter that is sent free annually to all S-B owners around the world. Please print my full address so readers can contact me.
PS. I would like to use the two above reference articles and photos in the S-B Register. They will be credited to OCW and the author. Thanks.
CARS & PARTS reported this pass summer that William Dale Backer and his wife Margie recently opened the Kingdom Expo Center and Rare Car Museum in a 37,000 sq. ft. building in Missouri. It was announced there are 70 cars on displayed, including a Scripps-Booth. This new museum is located at: 1920 N. Bluff St., Fulton, MO 65251. Carmen McIntire is the director at (573) 642-2080.
I was hoping that this was Garyís Model D that was finally found, but realized that Dale Backer owns the ex-Minnick and Ford Museum Model G, so this former museum car is now back on display in a museum,
Fulton is located on US-54, about 5 miles south of I-70. I have driven up US-54 several times over the years, making the trip between California and Peoria, Illinois a little more interesting by taking the US-54 cut off from Tucumcari, and traveling through the Ozarks.
In fact, it was my first trip to report to work at Caterpillar Tractor Company in Peoria, my first job out of college in June 1969, that I drove my Mini Cooper S on US-54, sort of high balling it through what I thought was the back roads of central Missouri.
SPACKE V-TWIN ENGINE
Last year I replied to an ad in HEMMINGS for more information for a DELUXE Spacke engine that was listed as a 1914-20 V-twin, believed for Spacke cyclecar. Has distributor ignition, nice original, 9 hp, #V11029, $2,300.
I received a nice letter that said in part:
The Serial Number Stamp is on the cam gear case (this is on the same side as where we find the large word "DeLuxe"). On this engine, V11029 is stamped in large letters about 1/4" high. The letters are NOT deeply mashed into the case, they are lightly stamped with fine delicate lines. Directly below the Serial Number is the "9 HP" mark.
Over the years, I have found 5 other Spacke DeLuxe engines. On those engines, the serial number is on the smooth crankcase face (not the camshaft side), just under one of the cylinders. Normally, under one of the cylinders it will say: MFD BY The F. W. Spacke Machine Co, Indianapolis, Ind Pat Applied For. Then in the middle it will give the horsepower. And finally, below the other cylinder will be the Serial Number (sometimes within a rectangle). None of these other DeLuxe engines are designed for a cyclecar; they are motorcycle v-twins with Bosch magnetos.
The distributor cap is missing, but the distributor body has an oval name tag. I believe it says DELCO-REMY?. a long serial number, and the city where it was made. The paint on this tag is chipped.
Is this engine possible a 1914? I have a 1913 SEARS motorcycle. The engine in the SEARS is very similar to this cyclecar engine. I would say that almost everything is interchangeable, EXCEPT the engine mounting bases are different, and the distributor -magneto differences. The engine looks like the ones shown on page 10 of REGISTER No. 8.
Les Snavely, Bowman, ND (701) 523-3105
ROCKET MANUFACTURE NUMBERS?
Les didnít mentioned if the other 5 Spacke DeLuxe motorcycle engines he has seen had the same serial number sequence as his cyclecar engine?
This last year I have acquired a 1914 Western NY Vehicle Registration List in which I found the following manufacture numbers, along with model, owners name, and town. To complete this data base, I have added the prototype Rocket from the Henry Ford Museum.
Perhaps this information will encourage owners of the other four Rocket owners to send in their VIN and engine numbers.
4 103 Scripps Cycle Car, 9hp, Thomas, Elimira, NY
235 Scripps Booth Cycle Car, Sterett, Buffalo
4-263 Scripps Cycle Car, 9hp, Lyman, Eggertville,
V 9705 Scripps-Booth Rocker, Booth, Detroit, MI
V10058 Scripps Booth Cycle Tg., Blaz, Buffalo
V10083 Scripps Booth Cycle Car, 9hp, Rosen, Buffalo
V10368 Scripps-Booth, Rds, 9hp, Platt, Campbell, NY
V10495 S-B Rocket, Williams, Madera, CA
V10499 S-B Rocket, Knight, Los Banos, CA
There are several observations that can be made from the above data. It is clear that Spacke sold its 9 horsepower engine to other cycle car manufactures, so the serial numbers used in the S-B Rockets were not sequential. It is also possible that owners reported either the Rocketís Car No. or engine number when recording the Manufacture number.
I am guessing that 4-263 is the Car Number that was stamped in the interior wood or on a nameplate attached to the seat base, dash, firewall, floorboards, or door sill. The 4 would be a prefix that indicates the model year, with the number 263 being the Car Number. Therefore, #103 and #235 would also be a VIN.
California preferred to use the engine serial number for identification, since it was stamped on the engine and would be harder to remove by a thief then the car nameplate. Has anyone ever seen a car number on the Rocket and exactly where is it located?
SAW 1917 MODEL G IN SAN DIEGO
At the San Diego Swapmeet last February, I meet Frances Aguilar, who has own a 1917 Model G for a number of years. It is an older restoration that is presently being upgraded by Pete Laughon. who showed me what he had already started on, and the plans he has for the next few months. It should be finished by now, and I hope to get some pictures of it in a few months when I visit the San Diego again in February.
OTHER SWAPMEET FINDS
I bought a 8 page sales folder titled "FERRO V-TYPE MOTORS." It list all three V-8ís available - the Model 8-35, 8-48 and 8-60 and the V-12 - the Model 12-80.
One interesting test drive that was reported was on the 8-35, as used in the Model D, It was driven 1063 miles from Buffalo, via Wilkes-Barre, to NYC and return and bragged it got 16 mpg, "while the average oil consumption was 425 miles per gallon." Remember, in the AQ book, it was reported that JSB proclaimed "Ye Gods" that the Model D only got 600 mpg of oil.
At the HCCA Bakersfield Swapmeet in April, I bought an Oakland Instruction Book and Repair Parts List for the 1923 Model 6-44. This is the last year that Oakland use the same Northway engine as used in the 1916-21 Scripps Booth.
It has always been claimed that both used a similar chassis, so I thought it would be fun to compare the two cars mechanical operations and components for myself.
I figure Northway built about 301,000 of these OHV Sixes between 1916 and 1923, that would be divided up as 223,000 sold to Oakland, 60,000 sold to Oldsmobile for 1917-21, and almost 18,000 went into Scripps Booths, This works out to about 74% to Oakland. 20% to Oldsmobile, and only 6% to Scripps Booth, which gives you some idea on how Scripps Booth fitted into the GM lineup.
SCRIPPS BOOTH IN AUSTRALIA
A few months ago I attended the VVCCA 30th Anniversary Rally at Fobes, NSW. While there were no Scripps Booths on this weeks tour, I drove about 100 miles one day in a car that is very similar to a Model G. This was a wire wheel 1917 Chevrolet RHD roadster with the same Mason built engine and TW Warner transmission thatís in the Model G. The Australia are well known for actually driving their veteran car at high speeds for long distances, and that is exactly what we did. I cruised along with the top up at 45-50 mph and the steering was surprisingly smooth and steady, aided by a steering stabilizer attached between the front axle and steering tie rod. VVCCA members in NSW claim they have heard rumors of a Model D out in the Bush country, but none have been found yet. Sorry, I didnít have more time in Australia to see the two known S-B Sixes in the SA and WA States, but plan on returning in five years.
SCRIPPS-BOOTHS IN FINLAND
I received an interesting letter from a Juha Kaitanen of Finland, seeking information about the REGISTER and S-B history for a story he was writing for the Finish National Antique car club in which there is 3400 members with some 7000 antique cars. I sent over a few back issues of the REGISTER, hoping some reader might have a S-B just hiding in some barn?
Juha wrote, "According to my information about autos registered in Finland between years 1922-1926 total numbers of 12 Scripps-Booth were registered. Of these 4 in Helsinki area, 4 in Turku and 1 in Hameenlinna, Viipuri (now part of Russia), Mikkeli and Kuopio area. From other source I found out that two Scripps-Booths were registered in Turku in 1923. One was owned by a physician Karl Kyrklund. The car was equipped with 25 hp engine and a 6 person body. The tire size was 32" x 3.5". The other Scripps-Booth was owned by a company called "Maakauppiaitten Oy." The serial no. of this car was 285, the engine horse power was marked 9,65 and the body of the car for four persons. The tire size was 815 x 105 (in centimeters I guess). Then there was one near Turku which was registered in 1921. This one was owned by ingineer John Johansson. It was 1920 model with 45 hp engine and a body for 4 persons. The tire size was 815 x 115.
TRYING TO SOLVE THE MYSTERY?
I have spent a lot of time pondering on what the three cars registered in and near Turku were?
The Kyrklund car doesnít make sense, since S-B only offered a 5 passenger maximum body, the SAE hp of the Six was only 19 hp, and the export S-B Six models had special metric tires that were 815 x 105 mm (not centimeters). It would of been unusual to have the odd American 32" x 3.5" tire size (Sixes in the US used 32" x 4" tires). However, this car could of have a locally build 6 passenger special body and different wheels, so I guess this car was a S-B Six.
The second company car has the right tire size for a Six, but serial #, hp, or 4 passenger donít fit? The serial #285 fits a Model H, which was a 4 passenger. It had 32" x 4" tires. I have never seen the export tire spec for these models, but it should of use the same 815 x 105 mm tire size. My best guess is it is a 22.5 SAE hp Model H. I have never seen a Model H, so perhaps GM Export sold most of them overseas?
The third is the most interesting since it was owned by an "ingineer" which I am too. Mr. Johansson would appreciate the refinements of the Model H, 4 passenger, 4 door touring and it is possible that a left over 1918 model could of been rego as a 1920 model as late as 1921 in Finland. The V-8 had a rating oft 35 hp. Perhaps the salesman tried to impress this engineer with a 45 hp figure, which might had given Johansson certain bragging rights with his friends. The smaller 23" wheels with oversize 815 x 115 mm tires (32" x 4.5") is kind of unusually, but maybe it gave a softer ride.
TIRE SIZES VS RIM SIZES
Typically, the overseas metric sizes were still clincher type rims and tires by the 20ís, while the Americans offered straight side rims and tires. An engineer would understand it would be easier to mount a oversize clincher tire on a smaller 23" rim, because there was more sidewall to give. A case in point. The spec sheet for the 1916 "Vitesse" NYC showcar listed 32" x 4" straight side (24") rims and tires with optional 30" x 3.5" clincher (23") rims with 31" x 4" clincher tires. Is everyone all confused now?
I donít have any literature on the Houk detachable (Quick Change) wire wheels (Wire Wheel Corp. of America, Buffalo, NY). Does anyone have a Houk catalog or repair part list? The C & G models used 30" x 3.5" (or 760 x 90 mm for export) tires that I believe fit a 23" clincher wheel rim, while the Model D & H used 32" x 4" clinchers tires that fit a 24" wheel rim. Tthe Sixes used 32" x 4" straight side tires in the US, with 815 x 105 mm clinchers for export.
To arrive at the rim size, you subtract twice the tire sidewall height from the tire outside diameter. The Model C & G rim is: 30" - (3.5" x 2) = 23" and the D & H is: 32" - (4" x 2) = 24" rim. Ledyard Pfund said his Model C uses a triple-laced Houk #4-60 (60 spokes) wheel. Is this a 23" rim? The Six parts list shows the 24" wheel has 48 each spokes. Is this a Houk #5? I always heard that the Houk #5 was a 25" wire wheel?
WISHING YOU A MERRY CHRISTMAS!
I looked for a closing S-B ad that would imply a Christmas greeting - but didnít find it. If you have read this far, I hope you have enjoy it? Please keep in touch.
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