HAM DNA ProjectHAM Surname DNA Project

Research through Genetics


Home Contacts GEDCOMS Links Queries Wills & Estates HAM DNA  Project

Group #2

 ANCESTRAL Y-SEARCH Study for the HAM Surname DNA Project

This Group has been tested as R1b1c

    GOAL:   To determine the possible ancestral origins for the HAM DNA Group #2.

Date:          January 7 - 14th, 2007



GOAL:    
To determine the possible ancestral origins for the HAM DNA Group #2.

PROCEDURE
      
Step 1:  Obtain Genetic Distance for Group #2, as given from Dean McGee's Utility:
      
Step 2:  Determine the ancestral haplotype for the group by use of Genetic Distance sums.
      
Step 3:  Deduce the Ancestral Haplotype by study of the changing (or mutating) markers for the Group.
      
Step 4:  Graph out the Ancestral Haplotype using PHYLIP to verify the age by comparison to the Group.
      
Step 5:  Search the YSEARCH Database (www.ysearch.org) for matches to this "Ancestral" Haplotype:

The results:    Group #2 Ancestral DNA Distribution (matches) throughout Europe

        Group #1 matches in England
        Group #1 matches in Ireland
        Group #1 matches in Scotland
        Group #1 matches in Germany
        Group #1 matches in Wales
        Group #1 matches in Spain
        Group #1 matches in France


The HAM DNA Group 2 Ancestral output from Dean McGee's Utility
 
Filed separately is the HAM DNA Group 2 Spectral Reconstruction Phylogenetic chart.


                                                                                                          Group 002

GOAL:   To determine the possible ancestral origins for the HAM DNA Group #2.

PROCEDURE:

    1) Run Dean McGee's Utility to determine the Genetic Distance for the Group.
    2) Determine the ancestral haplotype for the group by use of Genetic Distance sums.
         The largest sums for the most markers tested should indicate the most ancestral haplotype(s).
    3) Deduce the Ancestral Haplotype by study of the changing (or mutating) markers for the Group.
    4) Graph out the Ancestral Haplotype using PHYLIP to verify the age by comparison to the Group.
    5) Search the Y-Search database for matches to the ancestral haplotype.
         - From this search, report out the percentage matches that do not exist in the US.

I believe these results could then be used to provide some direction for locating ancestors in future research.


Step 1: Obtain Genetic Distance as given from Dean McGee's Utility:

Genetic Distance
ID4
3
2
5
0

R
i
S
C
N
1
3
3
0
3

H
A
M
4
6
1
1
8

L
e
S
C
5
7
2
9
8

B
a
r
t
5
6
7
5
3

J
o
h
n
4
1
6
4
1

J
o
V
A
4
8
9
8
8

O
b
S
C
43250 RiSC 253999810
N13303 HAM 31211112
46118 LeSC 91670112
57298 Bart 91067112
56753 John 91113723
41641 JoVA 81112373
48988 ObSC 102223337
       SUM:
48
9
14
14
17
16
22

Related Probably Related Possibly Related
FTDNA's Interpreting Genetic Distance for 12 Markers
FTDNA's Interpreting Genetic Distance for 25 Markers
FTDNA's Interpreting Genetic Distance for 37 Markers
- Infinite allele mutation model is used
- Values on the diagonal indicate number of markers tested


Step 2:  Determine the ancestral haplotype for the group by use of Genetic Distance sums.

Sorting the SUMS per participant in Group #2:


  Participant                       SUM     # of markers

43250  Richard SC             48             25
48988  Obediah SC            22             37
56753  John                         17             37
41641  Joseph   VA            16             37
57298  Bartlett  VA             14             67
46118  Levi   SC                 14             67
N13303 Hal HAM                  9             12

The largest sums should indicate the most genetically distant, and therefore the further back in time it takes to reach the Most Recent Common Ancestor.  Kit #43250 is actually Group #3, and relates to Group #2 some 2,000 years ago. We want something more recent than 2,000 years ago, so we want to find an Ancestral Haplotype somewhere between 43250 and 48988, 56753, and 41641. Preferably, closer to
48988, 56753, and 41641.

Kits
43250, 48988, 56753, and 41641 have the largest sums for Genetic Distance, which I am using as a definition for the term "Ancestral."

48988, 56753, and 41641 have 37 markers tested which should be sufficient to examine for the Ancestral Haplotype.
43250 is problematic to work with, because only 25 markers have been tested.

Step 3:  Deduce the Ancestral Haplotype by study of the changing (or mutating) markers for the Group.

    We have the most ancient for the group, as determined by the sums from the Genetic Distance columns.
 Now, our task is to determine what the Ancestral haplotype should look like by comparing the mutating markers for these individuals.


 GROUP 2

  
 
               
3
9
3
3
9
0
1
9
 
3
9
1
3
8
5
a
3
8
5
b
4
2
6
3
8
8
4
3
9
3
8
9
1
3
9
2
3
8
9
2
4
5
8
4
5
9
a
4
5
9
b
4
5
5
4
5
4
4
4
7
4
3
7
4
4
8
4
4
9
4
6
4
a
4
6
4
b
4
6
4
c
4
6
4
d
4
6
0
G
A
T
A
H
4
Y
C
A
II
a
Y
C
A
II
b
4
5
6
6
0
7
5
7
6
5
7
0
C
D
Y
 a 
 C
 D
 Y
 b 
 4
 4
 2
4
3
8


43250
Richard HAM  ( EST 1740-45 - BEF 1800 SC ) 13
24
14
10
11
14
12
12
12
13
13
30
17
8
10
11
11
25
15
19
32
15
15
17
17















56753
John HAM ( 1812 KY - 1878 IN ) 13
24
14
12
11
14
12
12
12
13
15
29
16
9
10
11
11
25
14
20
31
15
15
16
17
10
11
19
22
16
14 17
16
35
36
12
12



41641
Joseph HAM (1740  -1799 VA ) 13
24
14
12
11 14
12
12
12
13
15
29
16
9
10
11
11
25
14
20
32
15
15
16
17
10
11
19
22
16
14
17
16
36
36
12
12




48988
Obed Jones HAMN (1790->98 SC - 1880 in AL) 13
25
14
12
11
14
12
12
12
13
15
29
16
9
10
11
11
25
14
20
31
15
15
16
17
10
10
19
22
16
14
17
16
36
36
12
12





Out of the first 37 markers, the markers that are mutating for 56753, 41641, and 48988 (indicated with a cyan background) are:

The Mutating markers for these more distance kits:    

DYS390         DYS391       DYS449      GATAH4
      CDYa

Kit #
DYS390
DYS391
DYS449      GATAH4 CDYa
43250
24
10
32
 -
 -
56753
24
12
31
11
35
41641
24
12
32
11
36
48988
25
12
31
10
36







In order to determine our Ancestral Haplotype, we will use what is most different for these three individuals and work our way up to 43250 (pink background).

First we can see that DYS391 is mutating for Group #2, but is NOT changing for these three individuals. We will use that value of "12" for DYS391 in our Ancestral Haplotype.
Taking the values that are different for each mutating marker, then becomes:

                     
ANCESTRAL:           

           DYS390 = 25, but I will use the value of 24, since we know 43250 is the more ancient than the others.
           DYS391 = 10, but I will use the value of 11, since it is a value between 43250 and the other three.
           DYS449 = 32, since we know 43250 is the more ancient than the others.
           GATAH4 = 10
           CDYa   =  35

 and the remaining Ancestral Haplotype will then consist of the same values as the non-mutating markers for these three individuals.

ANCESTRAL     13    24    14    11    11    14    12    12    12    13    15    29    16    9    10    11    11    25    14    20    32    15    15    16    17    10    10    19    22    16    14    17    16    35    36    12    12


Step  4:    Graph out the Ancestral Haplotype using PHYLIP to verify the age by comparison to the Group.

Input data for
Dean McGee's Utility for Group #2 with the inclusion of the ANCESTRAL Haplotype:

43250 RiSC    13    24    14    10    11    14    12    12    12    13    13    30    17    8    10    11    11    25    15    19    32    15    15    17    17
N13303 HAM    13    24    14    11    11    14    12    12    12    13    15    29
ANCESTRAL     13    24    14    11    11    14    12    12    12    13    15    29    16    9    10    11    11    25    14    20    32    15    15    16    17    10    10    19    22    16    14    17    16    35    36    12    12
46118 LeSC    13    24    14    12    11    14    12    12    12    13    15    29    16    9    10    11    11    25    14    20    31    15    15    16    17    10    11    19    22    16    14    17    16    36    36    12    12     11     9    15    16     8    10    10     8    10    10    12    23    23    15    10    12    12    15     8    12    23    20    14    12    11    13    11    11    13    12
57298 Bart    13    24    14    12    11    14    12    12    12    13    15    29     16    9    10    11    11    25    14    20    31    15    15    16    17    10    11    19    22    16    14    17    16    36    36    12    12    11     9    15    16     8    10    10     8    10    10    12    23    23    15    10    12    12    15     8    12    23    20    14    12    11    13    11    11    13    12
56753 John    13    24    14    12    11    14    12    12    12    13    15    29    16    9    10    11    11    25    14    20    31    15    15    16    17    10    11    19    22    16    14     17    16    35    36    12    12
41641 JoVA    13    24    14    12    11    14    12    12    12    13    15    29    16    9    10    11    11    25    14    20    32    15    15    16    17    10    11    19    22    16    14    17    16    36    36    12    12
48988 ObSC    13    25    14    12    11    14    12    12    12    13    15    29    16    9    10    11    11    25    14    20    31    15    15    16    17    10    10    19    22    16    14    17    16    36    36    12    12



After running Dean McGee's Utility for Group #2 with the inclusion of the ANCESTRAL Haplotype, the PHYLIP compatible TMRCA table comes to:

8
43250_RiSC 0 2350 1975 2225 2225 2225 1975 2475
N13303_HAM 2350 0 775 1300 1300 1300 1300 1800
 ANCESTRAL 1975 775 0 600 600 500 500 600
46118_LeSC 2225 1300 600 0 150 325 325 400
57298_Bart 2225 1300 600 150 0 325 325 400
56753_John 2225 1300 500 325 325 0 400 500
41641_JoVA 1975 1300 500 325 325 400 0 500
48988_ObSC 2475 1800 600 400 400 500 500 0



And the resulting Graph looks like a reasonable choice for the Ancestral Haplotype:


HAM Group02 Ancestral Haplotype Group


Having a suitable Ancestral Haplotype, now use it for the Y-Search for matches to the Ancestral Haplotype.



Step 5:

    Search the YSEARCH Database (www.ysearch.org) for matches to this "Ancestral" Haplotype:

ANCESTRAL     13    24    14    11    11    14    12    12    12    13    15    29    16    9    10    11    11    25    14    20    32    15    15    16    17    10    10    19    22    16    14    17    16    35    36    12    12

In effect, we are looking for the location to match this Group #2 some 600 years ago.

Matching entered genetic markers on at least 37 markers, allowing a genetic distance of 1 per marker matched above 18.

This Y-Search on the "Ancestral" Haplotype, and got a search that yielded 1392 matches.

I then searched through these matches for all of the "known" and NON-USA matches, and tallied up the totals (708 were non-USA), then worked out percentages of where this "Ancestral" Haplotype should be found in the world.

The search:

http://www.ysearch.org/search_results.asp?uid=&freeentry=true&L1=13&L2=24&L3=14&L4=0&L5=11&L6=11&L7=14&L8=12&L9=12&L10=12&L11=13&L12=15&L13=29&L14=16&L15=9&L16=10&L17=11&L18=11&L19=25&L20=14&L21=20&L22=32&L23=15&L24=15&L25=16&L26=17&L27=0&L28=0&L29=0&L30=10&L31=10&L32=19&L33=22&L34=16&L35=14&L36=17&L37=16&L38=35&L39=36&L40=12&L41=12&L54=0&L55=0&L56=0&L57=0&L58=0&L59=0&L60=0&L61=0&L62=0&L63=0&L42=0&L64=0&L65=0&L66=0&L67=0&L68=0&L69=0&L70=0&L71=0&L49=0&L72=0&L73=0&L51=0&L74=0&L75=0&L76=0&L77=0&L78=0&L79=0&L80=0&L43=0&L44=0&L45=0&L46=0&L47=0&L48=0&L50=0&L52=0&L53=0&L81=0&L82=0&L83=0&L84=0&L85=0&L86=0&L87=0&L88=0&L89=0&L90=0&L91=0&L92=0&L93=0&L94=0&L95=0&L96=0&L97=0&L98=0&L99=0&L100=0&min_markers=37&mismatches_max=6&mismatch_type=sliding&mismatches_sliding_starting_marker=18&haplo=&region=


=============================

The results:

England      247   -   34.9 %
Ireland         130       18.4 %
Scotland     122       17.2 %
Germany       53         7.5 %
Wales             35         4.9 %
Spain             22         3.1 %
France           20         2.8 %
Mexico          19          2.7 %
Canada         11         1.6 %
other              49         6.9 %   (less than 2 % each)

Presuming that we could determine something from these totals, I would guess that this group should be found mostly in England, with smaller portions from Ireland and Scotland. It would appear that they should be twice as likely to be from England than from either Ireland or Scotland.

The problem that I am observing is the Genetic Distance, which appears to be larger than I would have wanted it to be. (I did not permit more than one mutation per marker, in an attempt to obtain some meaningful results.) So, it has occurred to me that the search may have to be repeated or corrected.

It is interesting that for these countries, many give city or county locations.  It is almost as if I could see how many locations are in common for the majority DNA matching in England, Ireland, or Scotland, for example.


ENGLAND:

From the totals that I have for England, and without going to very much trouble of attempting to determine the name of the County for the cities, I get a rough account of the results that look something like this:

Worcestershire         15
London                         6      (Depending upon some interpretation, sometimes identified with Shoreditch or Middlesex, for example.)
Devonshire                  4
Essex                            4
Gloucestershire          4
Kent                               4
Lancashire                   4
Lincolnshire                4
Yorkshire                      4
Somerset                      3
Staffordshire               3
Bedfordshire               2
Bristol                           2
Buckinghamshire      2
Cornwall                       2
Manchester                  2
Oxfordshire/Oxon      2
Shoreditch                   2
Somerset                      2
Staffordshire               2
Suffolk                          2
Surrey                           2
Wiltshire                       2

So, it is apparent that from the locations in England, the most likely locations of origin should be by far Worcestershire, followed next by London, Devonshire, Essex, and so on.  Worcestershire appears to be about 2 to 3 times as likely place of origin than most of the others locations.  You can find a map of English Shires from the 10th century at:
 http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd_1911/shepherd-c-060.jpg

IRELAND:

From the results for Ireland, the obvious appears to be Northern Ireland.  
Antrim, Dublin, and Donegal having the largest totals.


The totals as I have them:

Northern Ireland             9
Antrim          7
Dublin          5
Donegal       4
Tyrone         3
Ulster           3
Cork             2
Kilkeel          2
Limerick      2

SCOTLAND:

The totals as I have them for Scotland:

Aberdeen            4
Shetland Isles   4
Dumfries             3
Glasgow             3

GERMANY

Alsace                    2
Baden                    2
Palatinate/Pfalz   2
Hesse/Hessen     2
Saarland               2


WALES

Merionethshire        4
Carmarthenshire    4
Glamorgan               2
Brecknockshire     2


SPAIN

Canary Islands    3
Madrid                   2


FRANCE

Saint Hilaire                              1
Bretagne                                   1
Chateauneuf du Faou           1
Dieppe                                       1
La Rochelle, Poitou-Charentes  1
Lorraine                                   1



 - Dave Hamm    Jan 7 - 14th,  2007