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Stardancer2001
posted July 01,2003 10:27:55 PM EST
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You know, after watching the Season 4 early episodes, I fully understand the Cloe hate. What a whiny child! and Ellie
was getting on my nerves, too.
But Ebony remains my favorite Tribe member!!!!
kellygirl
posted July 02,2003 09:30:14 AM EST
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I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've seen Ebony do terrible things and I've seen her incredibly vulnerable. She's one of
the most complex characters on the show. I only wish we had more backstory with her and her sisters to get more of an idea
how she became who she is. Because I think it's a lot more than the effects of trying to survive in the post-virus world.
She acts like someone who's been shafted her whole life.
Stardancer2001
posted July 02,2003 11:45:15 AM EST
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I would like a Pre-Tribe written on Ebony and her sisters, too! I wonder why Java hates her so much.
scapebabe
posted July 02,2003 12:34:16 PM EST
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I wonder why Java hates her so much.
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Java's pretty much got an inferiority complex surrounding Ebony. She explains it to Ved - every time she'd get roller
skates, Ebony would get a bicycle. Every time she'd bring home a ribbon, Ebony would bring home a trophy, etc.
Btw guys - I have some updated news about DragonCon. It's been reported that Raymond Thompson is having some family health
issues that may prevent him from coming...in his place, he's allegedly looking to send Michael Wesley Smith, who plays Jack
on the show and Giles on Atlantis High.
I'll keep you posted as I know more!
trancer
posted July 03,2003 05:30:38 AM EST
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quote:
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She's one of the most complex characters on the show. I only wish we had more backstory with her and her sisters to get
more of an idea how she became who she is.
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Agreed, which is why she's also my favorite character. It's funny, I was over at the official board and was surprised
to see so many people describing Ebony as "evil" because, in my mind, she's not evil as much as 'morally ambiguous'.
What I find interesting about Ebony, and many of the other characters, is while they show us who they are now, there are also
glimmers of what they could have become pre-virus with the help of an adult environment and structure to guide the way. Ebony
is lead by her baser instincts, survival. But, she's also smart, a good leader. It's funny with how many times she's betrayed
the Mallrats yet when push comes to shove she begrudgingly becomes their leader.
re: season 3 vs. 4
Now having seen a considerable number of season 4 episodes, I feel fairly knowledgable enough to compare the two. And,
without a doubt, I have to say season 3 was the best. Thank God I can catch season 4 on a daily basis because if I had to
wait a week between episodes I would have bailed somewhere mid-season.
While I applaud the PTB in dumping so many characters, it was a serious detriment to season 4. Season 4 had *way* too
many new characters introduced at the beginning of the season, many of whom just weren't as interesting compared to what was
lost. Especially when most of the new characters are nothing more than carbon copies of the old ones.
What really caught me off guard is how much the cast changes put a big whack into all the relationships. No couples survived
the end of season three. Worse, many of the friendship's took a backseat so as to establish all the new characters. Jay and
his snotty little brother are nothing more than Bray and Lex 2.0.
And, God, could Ellie and her whining just die already. Season three, Ellie spent being with Jack while whining about
Luke. Then, she was with Luke and spent her time whining about Jack. Now, she's back with Jack, and the whining continues!!
I'll take Alice anyday over the whine that will not end.
Even worse, season 4 is nothing but a retread of season 3, with different villains. Imo, the Technos just don't compare
to the Guardian and the Chosen. While I like the theme regarding the dangers of technology and addiction metaphors, I think
the Chosen were scarier because of their ideologies and the differences between force and free will.
And is it just me or has Lex gotten dumber this season?
kellygirl
posted July 03,2003 10:01:31 AM EST
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quote:
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Jay and his snotty little brother are nothing more than Bray and Lex 2.0.
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When I first read this, I started wondering what it would be like if Jay and Bray (rhymes-hee!) met face to face. Then
my brain took a detour into shirtless fighting. But back on the subject, it's a shame that we'll probably never get to see
them meet up. You're right, they are a lot alike but I imagine a terrible clash of egos. Not to mention that I kind of see
Bray as a 'deal with things right now' guy whereas Jay is all about the big picture.
As for season 3 vs. 4, one of the things I like about 4 is the long-term implications. The Chosen were a compelling story
but overthrow them and it's over. With the Technos, life in the City has really changed. Pride may not like it but Salene
sees the truth - nobody wants to go back to a world without power and water. But the Technos are the ones with the ability
to make it happen. Driving them out could mean losing it all. And I'm not sure that just getting rid of Ram is going to make
it all better - all the Technos have been led to believe in their superiority.
And Lex, dumber? Um remind me, when was he smart?
dreago
posted July 03,2003 12:56:20 PM EST
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It's funny with how many times she's betrayed the Mallrats yet when push comes to shove she begrudgingly becomes their
leader.
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I really disagree with this. I think Ebony is all about survival too...until she found out how good it was to be the King.
Cause you can survive without hurting other people. And, Ebony hasn't be reticent about being city leader at all. She put
Amber's life and that of her baby in danger. She killed Ned. All to become city leader. Now, I do think with the hated Amber
out of the way, Ebony has felt more comfortable being nicer. But that could be because Ebony is now in the cat seat and has
the luxury of relative protection. Is it without peril? No, but she has a sweeter ride then the kids being experimented on.
Yes, Ebony is complex. A wonderful character. But I don't think it is morally "ambigious" to murder someone,
or in her case, get someone to kill another person.
I like her evil and conflicted. She doesn't have to be good. We got plenty of those. She's like Smoking Man on the X-Files.
He thinks he has great reasons for what he does. Rarely do people wake up and go, "I know, I think I'll be evil today."
What happens is that people decide to do whatever it takes and hurt whomever they have to - in the name of Good, God, Principles,
Survival, Country, blah blah blah. They could be "good" reasons, but it doesn't change the "bad" things
she did for these reasons.
YMMV.
kellygirl
posted July 03,2003 1:43:32 PM EST
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When you talk about Ebony putting Amber and her baby in danger are you referring to the banishment or the kidnapping?
Because, at the end of the day, it was Ned who kidnapped Amber and Trudy. Not that her actions upon figuring this out weren't
reprehensible, but it was just another case of her taking advantage of a situation. At the same time I clearly remember her
with the bags of money and sitting around the pool having people serve her. Sometimes I do feel like I'm grasping at straws
trying to defend Ebony. I guess what it comes down to is my need to justify the amount of sympathy I have for her and how
much I identify with her.
scapebabe
posted July 03,2003 4:35:55 PM EST
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It's funny, I was over at the official board and was surprised to see so many people describing Ebony as "evil"
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You shouldn't be the least bit surprised. The majority of the posters on the official bb are kids, and they tend to be
OMG THAT IS SO KEWLL! OMG THAT SUKS!! about things.
Ebony's never been evil to me, simply an opportunist. There's a lot of easy mistakes made between whether someone does
bad things, or is an evil person. And of course, since every post by me needs to have a DragonCon pitch, there will likely
be a 'Villains of Tribeworld' panel for just this sort of discussion.
quote:
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Jay and his snotty little brother are nothing more than Bray and Lex 2.0.
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I don't see that at all. Bray and Lex for one thing, were two young men on an even keel, with more or less the same physical
attributes and of a similar age. Jay and Ved definitely had an older brother/younger brother dynamic going on, though if you
knock it over to the fact that Lex was jealous of Bray, and Ved was jealous of Jay, then you have a similarity, but I still
wouldn't call it a duplicate.
quote:
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And Lex, dumber? Um remind me, when was he smart?
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I'm going to go out on a limb here. Lex isn't stupid. He's illiterate and inwardly he's selfish and a prat, self-centered
and more street smart then anything else, but he's not stupid. He was after all, smart enough to come up with numerous rackets
and strategies. His problem is his personality, which is founded by his experiences and his own innate psychological weaknesses.
And he likes being tied up. I'm sure of this.
scapebabe
posted July 04,2003 12:12:25 PM EST
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FYI - It's been confirmed. Raymond is out, and Michael Wesley Smith is in. We shall have a Jack!
chica345
posted July 04,2003 12:47:16 PM EST
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re:Lex and Smartness(not a word I know)
I think Lex is certainly street smart(all the scams and getting himself out of hairy situations) except when he lets his
emotions get the best of him.
Since I watched Season 4 first I didn't notice the cast overhaul but in hindsight it was really crazy. It was like a fresh
start (good for a first time viewer, but bad for the long timers). Patch and Dee remind me of Jack and Alice respectively
(though not as good).
Jack's coming to America? I'd better lock my sister in her room so she doesn't run away to Atlanta. The girl makes me
watch Atlantis High for him; she obsessed.
scapebabe
posted July 04,2003 1:33:50 PM EST
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I can sort of see how folks try to reconcile Patch with Jack, but Dee is pretty unique to me and has never seemed like
an Alice clone. But on second thought, they did try to give her a crush on Lex, didn't they?
Oh, and I've actually gotten to see all of Season 1 now. My god, I didn't realize what a little bitch Tai-San was! Or
was a bastard Lex was then, either. And I hate Zandra, the little manipulative cow. To be honest, none of the kids were particularly
sympathetic, even everyone's oh-so-precious Bray is kind of a prick.
dreago
posted July 07,2003 09:37:02 AM EST
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re: ebony and amber
I say that Ebony put Amber's baby in danger because she knew Ned had her kidnapped and knew that the gaurdian was going
to attack them and she waited till he roughed them up a bit before she came in.
And yes, I do blame Ebony for putting Amber's baby in danger when she exiled them. She was about to pop!
Re: DragonCon;
Has everyone bought their tickets yet? Prices go up after July 15th! I'm really bummed about Raymond not coming. I had
some great questions for him and now I won't get to ask him. I'm really interested in the diverse casting issue and I doubt
that the actors will be able to give me a casting director's point of view. But hey, maybe I can get Jack to please explain
to me the appeal of Atlantis High. Cause. I dont.get.it.
Raksha
posted July 07,2003 3:02:57 PM EST
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Will someone be a dear and ask them "Paul? What? Why?"
kellygirl
posted July 08,2003 09:18:24 AM EST
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That is so on my list to ask. ;)
Raksha
posted July 09,2003 12:13:08 AM EST
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Ah, kellygirl, ever my hero! :)
Which reminds me, I got those tapes by the way. I don't know if you got my e-mail or not.
kellygirl
posted July 09,2003 09:08:06 AM EST
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Hmm, I got an email but I thought it was the previous shipment. Anyway - YAY! Now you're all caught up with the rest of
us. WAM actually just finished re-airing (in the 5-6pm slot) all the Season 4's they've shown and that last one (195) was
so good. Ebony and Jay are giving me the warm fuzzies. Now that I think about it - is this the first time I've ever seen her
sincerely apologize? It's a whole new world. I can't wait to see the rest of the season - you know, when they finally get
around to showing them months from now. *sigh*
scapebabe
posted July 09,2003 12:28:01 PM EST
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But hey, maybe I can get Jack to please explain to me the appeal of Atlantis High.
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Mikey doesn't make the decisions, he just serves the bugers and fries like he's supposed to.
Stardancer2001
posted July 10,2003 7:20:04 PM EST
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Don't feel bad; I don't get Atlantis High, either.
scapebabe
posted July 11,2003 1:48:51 PM EST
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Heehee. Don't feel bad about not getting Atlantis High at all!
chica345
posted July 14,2003 10:00:17 AM EST
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As for Atlantis High, the only fun part is watching people from Being Eve and The Tribe. Kiwi shows seem to be very incestuous[sp?].
scapebabe
posted July 14,2003 1:18:36 PM EST
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chica345, Season 5 will start for us in January I believe, after they complete the last episodes of S4 on WAM.
It doesn't surprise me that Kiwi (and Aussie) casting is so incestuous. Both are small land masses with only X amount
of people.
The other day I saw an episode of 'Mirror, Mirror', and lo and behold there was a very young Trudy Prebble! She looked
so cute, but odd with just normal brown hair.
By the way folks, I've been made track director for the Tribetrack at DragonCon. Yay me! I'm gonna go nuts. ;) I'll post
more info as I get it.
Raksha
posted July 14,2003 5:15:41 PM EST
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The other day I saw an episode of 'Mirror, Mirror', and lo and behold there was a very young Trudy Prebble!
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You mean Antonia Prebble? :) I like her, she's a cutie. And her acting keeps improving. In season 1 she was pretty cringe
inducing, although she's good with the crying. Which is lucky, since she's spent half the show's run in tears.
scapebabe
posted July 14,2003 6:48:11 PM EST
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You mean Antonia Prebble? :)
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Yeah, that's who I met. Heehee, usually I mix her up under Toni Prebble and Tori Spence...
scapebabe
posted July 18,2003 12:34:51 PM EST
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Hey guys,
As the director of the Tribal Gathering 2003 track, I have openings for a few staffers for the track. If you're interested,
please poke me at slayerette@mindspring.com and I'll give you the info on the requirements and perks.
scapebabe
posted July 24,2003 3:53:25 PM EST
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As part of the events for DragonCon, we are hosting a Viewers Choice poll. Even if you can't come to DragonCon, you can
still participate in the poll, and the first 100 answers will be included in part of our activities at the convention! So
go cast your vote, and we'll post the results for everyone to see after the convention at the Gathering website!
Just click on the '2003 Viewers Choice Poll Box to go straight to the poll!
dreago
posted July 27,2003 3:17:33 PM EST
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Tribe Poll, my answers (cause The Tribe should always be on the first page)
Best Tribe Style:
Alice. She has consistently worn crazy clothes with style. And her outfits change. Ebony is a close second. I picked Alice
becuase she is a big girl but she bucks trends in that she wears fashionable clothes. When you look like Ebony, most things
look good on you anyways. Kudos to Tribe Costumers making girls of all sizes look cool!
Worst Tribe Style (my question):
Dee's neon glow look. Making the average girl hideous. Jeers to the costumers of Tribe for making girls of average sizes
look like elephants.
Second is Tribe sister's bridesmaid dresses. Yarg.
Best Male Style:
Zoot. Style, gore and insanity. Good Times.
Best Villain:
Ram. Nuff said. Zoot was killed off too early.
Best Hero (my question)
Amber. For trying to behave decently in an undecent world. For drawing a line where others care only about survival at
any cost. For bringing hope that maybe, one day, people will stop being selfish and work together for a great society.
Fave Couple:
Lex and Tai-San. Beauty tames the beast. Just barely though.
scapebabe
posted July 28,2003 12:42:29 PM EST
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Likewise, dreago, if you're interested in working on the track, give me a shout.
But shhhh...poll results are secret! ;)
dreago
posted July 28,2003 2:28:11 PM EST
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Scapebabe, I did email you! But you never wrote back. I figured you were busy. Would you mind trying to email me? I cut
and pasted your email from an earlier post and I'm boggled as to why it hasn't gone through...
scapebabe
posted July 30,2003 02:23:59 AM EST
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Hey all!
The Tribetrack needs some help. We're hosting a fashion show that will start at 2:30 (Call time is for 1:30) and need
models! Even if you're not a fan of the show, if you'd like to participate in a fun event, wear some funky clothing, and do
a little dance on the catwalk, we need people who fit the following sizes:
1 Small Male w/a 29" waist
1 Small Male, undetermined
1 Any Gender Size 10
1 Any Gender Size 8
2 Female Size 6
1 Female Size 8-10
1 Female Size 4-6
3 Female Size 6-8
If you're interested, please contact calliopetb@yahoo.com - if you have a full length picture of yourself to include that
would also be wonderful, but is not required. Please include your name, gender, size, and contact info. Thanks!
(Feel free to cross-post to other Tribe fandom communities!)
scapebabe
posted July 31,2003 2:46:24 PM EST
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The North American Tribal Gathering Costume Contest will be held in conjuction with our Fashion Show at 2:30 PM in the
Centennial II/III Ballroom on Friday, August 29th.
Categories include Best Original Tribestyle and Best Recreation, with awards going to Under 16 and 16 and above. There
will also be an award for Best Overall.
To pre-register for the costume contest, please check out the North American Tribal Gathering Website and click on 'Features'.
This will take you to the registration link for the costume contest.
We look forward to seeing you in Atlanta!
Raksha
posted July 31,2003 10:56:01 PM EST
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Dude, every time you post stuff about all the activities you've got going on I positively seethe with envy. I would kill
to be there! ARGH!
*Please note the next post is spoilery but since it’s a letter from Raymond Thompson I’m leaving it
in to be perused later – it should show up if you highlight the text
scapebabe
posted August 01,2003 2:00:40 PM EST
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Hey chica345,
You might find this interesting. It's a letter that Raymond wrote to one of the Undead fans with regard to the current
'scandal' regarding S5:
[spoiler start]
Dear Heike,
Thank you very much indeed for your email of 29th July which has been forwarded to me.
The situation is that story lines evolve and at one point we were considering developing a relationship between Salene
and May as I have always been intrigued to explore a guy relationship in The Tribe. I think it is important to treat various
elements of society with truth and sensitivity (i.e. I believe it is the responsibility of broadcasters and production companies
along with people in the arts to reflect all areas of society ... especially where young peoples programming is concerned).
Broadcasters around the world who show The Tribe are as liberal as they can be in their attitudes - but they themselves
tend to have to adhere to various statutory bodies. And, although no issue is ever ruled out, there are various complications
considering that some younger children watch The Tribe.
Some of these younger children are obviously aware of guy rights and issues. Others are not.
So it is a difficult balancing act trying to satisfy each and every party (i.e. not solely the UK broadcaster, Channel
FIVE, but global broadcasters who transit the series and have differing requirements stemming from regulatory bodies.)
The complexities concern every aspect. Heterosexual relationships, for example, or themes of justice, or self reliance,
et cetera. Though these complexities are in no way confined to the gay community.
The actresses were willing to portray their characters however they were written - with conviction and integrity.
But slowly it became apparent that there were so many elements involved that to do the theme justice we really had to
research in greater detail - and with the production going at full steam ahead and over taking the writing process ... we
ran out of time.
The writing team along with myself started to ask a lot of questions. Was it realistic, for example, for Salene to suddenly
"become gay" considering her relationship with Ryan and Pride for instance? Likewise May. Would they be bisexual
as opposed to gay? And if they suddenly discovered their true sexuality ... would they ever enter into a heterosexual relationship
again or would we be confined to gay relationships?
Also it felt a little confusing to know if the motivation of the characters stemmed from a dimension of female friendship
given that they were let down by the male world.
At one point we pondered that perhaps May was gay and that Salene looked to her solely as a friend - though she did ponder
whether or not she herself had gay feelings - or whatever.
I quickly discovered that I was making a bit of a mess of it, Heike. And there was a danger of the story lines and relationships
becoming superficial and not truthful. I was worried that we might be accused of trying to sensationalise or trivialise a
gay relationship just for the sake of exploring one almost as a token gesture. And all the time ... we were running out of
time.
So in the end I abandoned the notion and left it open that perhaps May has discovered some gay awakenings but Salene does
not share those feelings.
Some of the story synopsis were probably not amended in time because everything was changing so much. We actually shot
the kiss but I edited it out because it seemed confusing without the characters motivations being properly defined.
I take on board your points, which I think are very valid. The gay community have a right to be represented in drama in
a caring and sensitive way. But also in a truthful way. And although all at Cloud 9 are certainly caring and sensitive (not
homophobic, respecting all peoples rights) deep down I did not feel that we were being truthful in the writing.
This can easily be solved through research and knowing more about the motivations and complexities of the gay community.
The loves and doubts and even prejudices people suffer coming to terms with who they are.
There is a vast amount of material there. And I just did not want to portray a gay relationship in a stereotypical way.
So please be rest assured that in the right circumstances and especially given the time to research and portray a gay
theme in a proper manner ... then we will most certainly address those issues.
The Tribe is a very difficult series to write and produce given all the constraints we have - especially time. We really
do try our best but on occasion we don't get it right.
I apologise for this.
Thank you for taking the time to write to me and for your interest in The Tribe.
With kind regards,
Raymond Thompson
Executive Producer and Creator
The Tribe, Atlantis High
Cloud 9 Screen Entertainment Group
[spoiler end]
Raksha
posted August 01,2003 3:33:53 PM EST
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Well that explains a lot. I'm glad he was putting so much consideration into it because it is such a complex issue. Maybe
next season.
chica345
posted August 01,2003 7:15:49 PM EST
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I understand. Still a bummer though.
Stardancer2001
posted August 01,2003 11:00:50 PM EST
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I wish I could go to Dragon Con, too.
kellygirl
posted August 02,2003 10:14:14 AM EST
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Woo-hoo! September WAM schedule is up and here's what's in store. Labor Day - Monday September 1st - there will be a Season
4 marathon starting at 7am with the first ep of the seaon and ending with an ep at 2:30am. And that 2:30 ep? It's a new one
(#196) for those keeping score. It will reair on Friday Sept. 5th at 8pm and we go back to the schedule of new eps Friday
at 8pm with the previous week's ep at 8:30.
As usual, if anyone wants the full schedule just email me and I'll send you the Word document.
Stardancer2001
posted August 03,2003 10:01:59 AM EST
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Wonderful!!!!
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