INTERVIEW
Art Lange asks some questions of Ellery Eskelin...
(also posted on the hatHUT website)
ART LANGE:
It's my understanding that your recordings with hatOLOGY will focus on your trio with
Andrea Parkins and Jim Black. Why this unusual instrumentation, and these particular
individuals, for your current group? How did you meet them? When did you decide to
form an on-going trio with them?
ELLERY ESKELIN:
I decided to form the band with Andrea Parkins and Jim Black in December of 1993.
I had met Jim and played with him in an early version of Tim Berne's Bloodcount and
was immediately impressed with his ability to match my phrasing. Jim also has a very
personal sound and concept on the drums. He's liable to do anything at anytime. I got the
idea to use accordion after realizing that I wanted a chordal instrument but didn't
want to hire a piano, organ or guitar player. After much research and listening
it slowly dawned on me that the accordion was to be taken very seriously as an instrument
for improvising. After an extensive search in New York (and beyond) I discovered
Andrea Parkins. She plays the instrument like no one else. I wasn't sure if the accordion
would be a strong enough sound but that ceased to be an issue from the first notes
of our first get together. Her sound blended very well right away and was in every
way equal to and up to the task.
AL: To you, is what Andrea does with the sampler outside of the "jazz" tradition?
Was that an intentional focus on your part?
EE: As to whether Andrea's sampler playing is outside the jazz tradition, I suppose
it is although I'm not too concerned with that question. Maybe the question should
be "is the jazz tradition big enough to include the sampler playing of Andrea Parkins"?
I think so but it doesn't really matter. It's never really been my focus to make choices
based on whether something was in or out of the jazz (or any other) tradition. I
lead with my instincts, following my impulses and learning from them rather than
making extrapolations based on a view of history. That's not to say that it's all natural
or that I don't think about it, it's just that the real revelations are often based
on innate reactions. Our bodies are programmed with endless information that effects
everything we do, including our musical choices. As to the tradition, I want to be connected
to life and am not afraid of influence. The modernist concept of originality without
previous influence has come to a dead end. Rather than looking at originality as
an intellectual exercise, I try to translate what might be unique about me and my
life to music. Pretty soon (if not already) the idea maintaining a jazz tradition
along predetermined lines will start to seem a little silly.
AL: Is your approach to improvising different in this group than playing with other
musicians?
EE: My approach to improvising is indeed different in this band than in others, yet
I should point out that my approach is different in every ensemble I play in. I adjust
to the players, concept and instrumentation involved in each case. It would seem
inappropriate to me to try and play the same way in every instance. The music demands
that I adjust, not in any idiomatic way but in a natural, interactive way.
AL: Do you consider yourself primarily a saxophonist (improviser) or a composer? If
these are interchangeable or interrelated to you, how so?
EE:I suppose that I consider myself primarily a saxophonist and improviser. My composing
is integral (and perhaps even defining) to the music but is limited more or less
to my own projects and concepts. I haven't composed music for other people nor is
my music easily adaptable to other performers. I feel I'm a conceptualist in as much as
the nature of the band depends most heavily on how I put the music together more
than any other single element.
AL: When you're composing a piece for the trio, where do you ideas come from? Do you
have non musical inspirations as well as strictly musical ideas?
EE: My ideas for composing often come from a gut level impulse regarding the various
elements of any particular piece. For example, I might begin by notating several
basic ingredients (a groove, a melodic phrase, some harmonic movement) and then structure
them in a piece, usually separately, with an eye for the overall shape of the composition.
If I feel that the piece needs a little more rhythm and I'll simply add a rhythmic
section and base the length of it on the overall proportions I've got going, stopping when it seems balanced. I'll also leave room for improvisation as an element of
equal compositional value, not to develop written material but to balance and contrast
it. As far as the shape of the pieces go I choose to let the shapes hang out there
just as they are rather than use formal music devices and forms. It reflects the way
I see events in life. If you really pay attention to what your seeing you'll notice
all sorts of odd juxtapositions going on in what we often block out of our perceptions.
AL: Where do you see this group going, musically, in the future?
EE: I see the direction this band is going as a potentially troubling one for me.
Much of what I'm hearing and attempting to do with the music is leading me to a place
that is sometimes at odds with the expectations of an audience during a live performance. The shape and flow of the music is often at odds with the "tension and release"
aspect of most jazz and sometimes leaves listeners scratching their heads over what
they hear. Some of what I'm currently trying to do really goes nowhere in terms of
development. I'm trying to create a sound that simply exists for no other reason than to
sustain a particular space to be in for a moment. Audiences often expect to hear
jazz soloing that gets them excited and on their feet. While I like to do that sometimes
I'd often rather do pieces that just sort of lay there. It's like putting the focus of
your attention on an odd place for a moment in time, which I find stimulating. It
subverts the expectation of the listener (not that that's what it's all about, it's
just the situation I'm faced with). This type of thing makes a much better impact on recording
where the piece is framed in a very focused way. I have to find a way to make this
work in live performance as well.
AL: What ideas do you have for the future, separate from the trio?
EE: It's difficult for me to say what I see myself doing aside from this band in the
future simply because I usually need to take things one step at a time. At the moment
I'm so enthralled with this group that it's hard to think about anything else although I'd like to figure out some ways to present music in some different ways. Film might
be nice, perhaps dance or theater as well. I just did some recording with a project
called "The Grassy Knoll". Very groove/beat oriented music with a lot of ambient
sampled texture and improvised parts, a bit on the dark side. I'd like to do some more
of that type of thing as well. What I don't really see myself doing is too much more
jazz type instrumentation.
AL: As a sidebar, how about listing either your 10 favorite organ records, or your
10 favorite movies, or your 10 favorite books? (your choice)
EE: I always feel strange about compiling top ten lists since it seems to imply "superiority"
of one thing over another. I haven't seen enough movies, read enough books or heard
enough records to feel comfortable with that. I'd rather talk about a couple of visual artists who have had a positive effect on me lately, namely Bruce Nauman
and Robert Rauschenberg. Both of these artists have had major retrospectives in New
York in recent years. I admire and am inspired by the fact that both of them work
in a variety of mediums while maintaining their own voice and perspective. It's not painting
or sculpture or video that's important. It's not even the concept of art that's important.
It's the manifestation of the human spirit that's important. Labels like "jazz" and "art" and even "music" can have a very detrimental effect if taken for granted,
sidetracking us from the essence of what we assume they are about.
but if you really must...
top 10 organ records:
1. Gene Ammons & Sonny Stitt "You Talk That Talk" (Prestige)
2. Gene Ammons & Sonny Stitt "You Talk That Talk" (Prestige)
3. Gene Ammons & Sonny Stitt "You Talk That Talk" (Prestige)
4. Gene Ammons & Sonny Stitt "You Talk That Talk" (Prestige)
5. Gene Ammons & Sonny Stitt "You Talk That Talk" (Prestige)
6. Gene Ammons & Sonny Stitt "You Talk That Talk" (Prestige)
7. Willis Jackson "Bar Wars" (Muse)
8. Willis Jackson "Bar Wars" (Muse)
9. Willis Jackson "Bar Wars" (Muse)
10. Willis Jackson "Bar Wars" (Muse)
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