Nico Nico Sykes is the founder of some of the most diabolical drum n bass labels the world has ever seen: No U-Turn, Nu Black, and Saigon. He is also one of the most influential drum n bass producers in the UK. In the following interview, Nico and Sonic talk about the history of drum n bass, Marlon Brando, and living in the ghetto. Sonic: When were you first exposed to electronic music, primarily drum n bass? Nico: I don't know really. I've said before that I do. If you mean since the '89 thing then - I dunno - probably a year or so after that. The whole thing kicked off. Sonic: So were you going to clubs or were you breaking into warehouses? Nico: I was just exploring. This guy Ed Rush started playing me these records and I was like: "What is this?". He kind of really made me interested in this stuff that I thought didn't sound too good at the beginning. Sonic: So how did you hook up with Ed Rush? Nico: He lived across the street from me, and he just had this taste in this music that I dug. I knew a bit about sampling so we made some records. Sonic: Where did you guys live? Nico: We lived in this place called Barnes in London. Quite a nice area. Sonic: So you guys weren't living in the ghetto? Nico: Aw, no. Fierce comes from the ghetto though. Sonic: A lot of people think that all drum n bass producers were growing up in the ghetto. Nico: Yeah, that's true. That kind of bothered me as well cuz that was very much the feeling I had about it, and I think that's true. But we certainly didn't come from "the ghetto" as you put it. We kind of came from a nice house and shit. It was a problem for me at first. I was like, "hey, I'm the rich white boy who wants to this jungle thing as well." Well, I wasn't rich but I thought I might be perceived that way. So we always used to say if someone said, "where you come from?" we'd say Sherisburgshaw or from Acton which is slightly more like ghetto areas in London. Sonic: So where did you get the cash to start No U-Turn? You said that you were doing some production jobs before that. Nico: I was bumming around quite a lot and any cash that I had I spent on buying this sampler and the Atari computer and an SY22 keyboard. I kind of had no money left after that. My girlfriend was helping out a bit. Then some one said to me: "See that guy over there" in the pub... "He's got loads of money." So I went over and said: "Do you wanna pay for me to make a record and put it out? I'll give you the money back within a month. And he said, okay. Sonic: And that is how No U-Turn began? Nico: Kinda. This guy, when he saw it worked, when we sold the records really quickly and made some money, he said: "Alright, let's do it again." Then it pretty much became a necessity to have some kind of company to put the records out. Sonic: You guys were pioneers at the time, just messing around, exploring your equipment. Do you remember pushing your equipment to the limit to make some of your records? Nico: Ab-so-lute-ly not. No way. I'm pretty ashamed to say I don't challenge the equipment much at all. Especially nowadays with the amount of software that's around. I've rarely used filters or sequencing techniques. I was just really getting off on looping a breakbeat. You just find a good beat, I can listen to it go round. Every record I make comes out of a sampler. Sonic: A lot of journalists claim that this dark side of drum n bass originated, not only from the ghetto, but from chaos that was involved in the UK rave scene. Parties were getting busted, people were O.D.ing, drugs had gone bad, the music hit a dry spot... "Sesame's Treat" was the top of the charts at that time I think. And some journalist argue that drum n bass was a progressive form of hip hop that originated in England's ghettos, same as the Massive Attack story. So what really happened? You were down there. We just hear stories about it. Nico: What you said there's all kind of true. All of those things were happening. But I think there seemed to be a lot of competition going on between the producers to outdo each other. Who could come with a harder beat than the last guy or a heavier bassline - a kind of competition thing which is probably why the music got so good. It was just everyone trying to outdo each other all the time. Dillinja won in the "Amen" contest, and Roni Size and those guys won maybe in the rolling groove contest. No U-Turn, we were into this dark thing. I dunno. I mean, the ecstasy thing kind of stopped I felt. Everyone around me stopped doing ecstasy. And that kind of meant things were less happy. For a couple of years when we were making these records I was walking around sort of upsetting people at house parties by putting on dark drum n bass or a rolling jungle tune I liked, and saying: "Ya gotta listen to this. This is what's up." If you can imagine if each day some one else is getting a sampler and a sequencer and making software and the whole thing is spreading like wildfire and the standard is just improving so fast all the time that to try and put it down to particular social events as to why certain records got made is maybe a bit like highbrowing it. People just like good beats. Some people were playing the records or dancing at parties and then journalists try to work out the social reasoning behind this. I wasn't into the love, peace, unity movement, or anything when I got into it. I was like: "My God, this music's strong. This is developing very quickly. Each week there's a new, wicked tune, and all the other scenes seem a bit stagnant. i want to be apart of this animal that's just changing and growing and moving." People are still debating "what's jungle?" "What's drum n bass?" Sonic: Are people really nitpicky about differentiating jungle and drum n bass up in England? Nico: No, not like they seem to be in America. It's all the same kind of thing I think. People always want to try and put it in a bracket. I think it's best to go: "That's DJ Die". "That's Grooverider". "That's Dillinja". Sonic: Did you ever get upset when journalists called the sound No U-Turn created "Tech Step"? Nico: No, I liked that. Sonic: A lot of people have said No U-Turn's sound developed out of Doc Scott's "Here Comes The Drums", and Alex Reece's "Pulp Fiction". Those were the first two songs that sort of used that two-step pattern. And then Trace did the T-Power remix and then it moved on from there. What were some of your other influences that influenced the sound that you guys concocted? Nico: Every record that I ever heard that I liked. The No U-Turn sound is this unique situation that can only happen when Ed Rush and I sit in a room together and say: "Were going in. What sample have you got today?" Or Trace. It was really about the mood that we got each other in. Whether it was smoking weed, whether it was just playing each other's sounds and somehow taking an initial idea, maybe just a simple loop and going down a road where each guy is sort of telling the other guy that we're on the right track. If Ben (Ed Rush) wasn't feeling something, some beat I'd made, he'd be able to say: "No, I don't like that...that's wrong." And it wouldn't be a problem. We'd move on. I guess there was a kind of production thing going on where I kind of felt my job was to help Ed realize his dark ideas. It was his decision on beats, which beats he'd like to use, which sounds he'd like to use. I would try to get as much out of his head into the computer and then add in my flavor to it which I guess is something to do with the relationship of the sounds to one another. Sonic: So the music is a reflection of your collected personalities? Nico: Nah, I didn't like it when we were doing "Area 51" with Trace and flying saucer and U.F.O. conspiracies. That's not really my thing. I'm quite the other way. But Trace was exploring that area at time, as you'd say. The title seems to be kind of a joke, I think Sonic: Like "Torque" for example? Nico: Yeah, I gotta thank my dad for that. That was him really. I said, we need a hard word that looks good when you write it down that talks about moving and everything." And a couple days later he emailed me "Torque". Sonic: Throw some robotic creatures on the cover here with some syringes sticking out of it. Yeah that's hardcore. Nico: Yeah, that was a good album...it really was. It could be the best that we ever do. I dunno. Sonic: So you're never influenced by science fiction cuz I know Optical's really into that. Nico: Well, I like the film "Alien". That changed the way I thought about things a lot. "Bladerunner", "Apocalypse Now" - I watched it last night with my mate Brock for the tenth time or something. Sonic: Your production work for No U-Turn has set new standards in drum n bass mixing and in shaping its current sound today. Nico: I agree. Sonic: Why did you start up Saigon? Cuz, it seems to go in a different direction. Nico: Yeah, at the time, the distributor said, "Hey, we want you to sign your label to us for a long time" and I was like "Ooooo." And I thought if I start another label I could always sign away a label and still have a label that I control. So I thought of Saigon. And also there was a lot of what was being called "intelligent" kind of music at the time, y'know? And a friend of mine, Dom Angas (Dom & Roland), was really into that kind of sound and making these really good like - we'll call them "nice tunes" but not really, really dark and heavy. And I really liked them. I'd say to Ed or Fierce "what about putting this record out?, and they'd be like: "No, no, you've got to keep it dark. No U-Turn should always be pushing that area." And so I thought, well, we need another label to kind of put out that sweeter side of life or something. Sonic: Yeah. Your music has often been characterized as dark in every shape and form. Nico: Yeah. I like dark stuff. I think the future is probably pretty scary. For a lot of people anyway. Sonic: Especially with the year 2000 coming on. Nico: I'm into lightening up really. I'm getting old. I'm going to be doing some more melodic, sweeter things I think. Sonic: Some aphro-funk? Nico: I don't know about that. There'll always be people trying to make things darker than the last thing that got made, and some people would say the darkest stuff's been done already. Sonic: Let's talk about albums. There's "Torque" off No U-Turn, there's Saigon "Incoming" that you released this year, and then there's the album you're throwing around right now. Two of them actually. Nico: Yeah, the second Saigon album's called "Ambush". I really like it a lot, more than the first one cuz it's just better. Everyone tells me it is, so you should check it out. I haven't decided how it's going to be released or when, and I've still got decisions about artwork I've got to make. I've really got to find a good time to release it. You're gonna be able to get it off the new way before I get around to putting it on the shelves. Sonic: So wait, you are holding the album back cuz you haven't found artwork yet? Nico: Naw, it's not just that. I haven't found a distributor in the U.S. to do it. Sonic: You don't need a picture on it. You could release it in a black slip case and people would buy it. Nico: Yeah, well I would feel guilty not putting some nice ideas or nice images or something inside when you get it. Sonic: Put Marlon Brando on the cover. Nico: Well fuck that! ...Wait, maybe that's a good idea. Sonic: It'd be great. Have a snail crawling on his face. Nico: I don't think he'd be into it really, the other information I suppose I should be relaying here is there's also this No U-Turn album. I think I'm gonna call it "Trauma", which is also the name of a Dom & Roland tune..but hey. And it's a 17 track mix cd, which Fierce did in the studio shortly before I left for America in november. It's 17 of some of the most interesting things we did over 6 years. I'm really, really proud of it. And I think it's a really, really great, pure, drum n bass/jungle experiment. It's kind of like an anthology of the work I've done in the studio. So, again, I'm considering when to release it. It should be available soon. -- Sonic