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Will Regional Climate Change Efforts Drive National Climate Change

7.17.09   Carol Tudor, Director, E3 Consulting, LLC

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    Let's assume that federal climate change regulation is taking a back seat to economic issues for the time being, say until at least 2010. With no action at the federal level, it is possible, even likely, that the efforts at state and regional levels will mature and even start to overlap or connect. Many observers have already predicted that the patchwork of regulations will be sewn together to essentially become a nationwide program. In this paper, we take a look at the common threads of the major regional initiatives and include some opinions by industry leaders regarding the importance of creating a cohesive regulatory landscape and the potential that it is already in formation. Some regional initiatives are being designed intentionally to have the ability to link with other programs, such as a federal program, when they become established.

    Business leaders are calling for consistency. Jeffrey Immelt, CEO of General Electric, stated that "Long-term certainty would help us all make smart decisions. We believe that the government can provide leadership by clarifying policy, by committing to market mechanisms [and] by promoting diverse energy sources." "It is critical that we start now," said Elizabeth Moler, Executive Vice President for Exelon, in 2006. "We need the economic and regulatory certainty to invest in a low-carbon energy future."1

    This White Paper starts by summarizing the current status of some regional and state government initiatives regarding climate change. It then looks at the development of industry standards for quantifying and reporting GHG emissions and regulatory mechanisms, such as the use of offsets, that could become applicable to a nationwide program.

    State and regional greenhouse gas (GHG) regulations.

    Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative

    CO2 from fossil fuel combustion accounts for approximately 81% of greenhouse gas emissions, as measured in CO2 equivalent units. Of this, electricity generation accounted for 42% of the CO2 from fossil fuel combustion in 2007, the remaining being largely transportation.2 Thus, as the source of approximately 34% of US GHG emissions, and its concentration in stacks rather than scattered in tailpipes, electricity generation has, for better or worse, become the area of focus of regulations. The first such regulation is Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative, or RGGI ("Reggie").

    RGGI is a cap-and-trade market-based program in the northeast and is currently the only mandatory program in the US. RGGI sets emission limits on power plants of 25 MW and greater, allowing the plants to trade emission allowances. The program caps emissions of CO2 from power plants at 1990 levels from 2009 through 2014, then gradually reduces the cap to 10% below that level by 2018. The ten participating states are Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, and Vermont.

    The program's requirements are outlined in each individual State's Rule, but basically, each regulated power plant must hold allowances to cover their emissions of CO2 annually, and the number of available allowances will be reduced over time. RGGI started selling allowances with auctions beginning in 2008. The prices during the three auctions held to date have ranged from $3.07 to $3.51 for emissions during 2009. If a source predicts that it will emit more than its allowances can cover, it has three options: it can install CO2 control devices, purchase allowances on the market, or generate credits through an emissions offset program. RGGI allows only a certain percentage of emissions to be offset; this percentage increases if allowance costs exceed certain thresholds. The proceeds from the allowance auctions are to be used to support energy efficiency and the development of clean renewable energy.

    The concept of the market-based cap-and-trade approach is described in layman's terms in a 2005 article entitled "Emission Control": "The more firms that blow their pollution limits, the fewer extra credits there are, and the more they cost, and the greater the incentive to find ways to pollute less-either by conservation, technological innovation, or shutting down dirty plants or factories. Rather than pass laws specifying how pollution targets [will] be met, the government only needs to set those targets, then let private parties figure out how to meet them."3

    Western Climate Initiative

    The Western Climate Initiative (WCI) includes Arizona, California, New Mexico, Oregon, Montana, Utah and Washington, as well as the Canadian provinces of British Columbia, Manitoba, Ontario and Quebec. The WCI builds on two previously existing regional agreements: the Southwest Climate Change Initiative of 2006, and the West Coast Governors' Global Warming Initiative of 2003. The WCI was launched in February 2007 and while moving forward with its program as a region, continues to advocate for the development of national and international GHG emission reduction programs.

    A major difference between WCI and RGGI is that WCI will apply to emissions not just from electricity generation, but industrial, transportation, and residential and commercial fuel use as well. WCI also includes six greenhouse gasses whereas RGGI only covers CO2. The completion of the design of a cap-and-trade program was announced in September 2008, outlining the timeline as requiring emissions reporting by 2011 (for 2010 emissions), followed by the first phase of the cap-and-trade program beginning on January 1, 2012.

    In their January 2009 Background Document and Progress Report for Essential Requirements of Mandatory Reporting for the Western Climate Initiative, Third Draft (the 2009 WCI Report), it is noted that WCI plans to require a reporting threshold of 10,000 metric tons, even though the cap-and-trade participation threshold will be 25,000 metric tons. As a possible sign of regulation to come, the report indicates that the 10,000 metric tons is consistent with the level being considered in potential federal cap-and-trade legislation.

    It will be interesting to see how this comprehensive mandatory program will impact the development of GHG regulations elsewhere.

    Midwestern Greenhouse Gas Reduction Accord

    The Midwestern Greenhouse Gas Accord (MGGA), dated November 2007, outlines the intention of the participating jurisdictions to form a cap-and-trade system that has the ability to integrate with other programs, such as a federal program, when they become established. The participating states and province are Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Manitoba, Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin. The MGGA will "demonstrate leadership toward, and enable incorporation into and harmonization with, any future federal program, while ensuring the capability of the regional program to stand on its own, if necessary."

    The MGGA plans to finalize its Model Rule, based on a set of recommendations already drafted, by summer or fall of 2009, for submittal to the participants for their review. The recommendations include use of The Climate Registry (TCR) for tracking emissions, discussed later in this paper. Of the regional cap-and-trade programs described so far, the MGGA is the least developed. Some observers conjecture that a federal program will be in place before the MGGA is implemented and therefore make the MGGA unnecessary.4

    California Assembly Bill 32

    The California Global Warming Solutions Act of 2006, Assembly Bill 32, requires the state to enact regulations by January 1, 2011, to achieve the maximum technologically feasible and cost-effective reductions in GHGs, including provisions for using both market mechanisms and alternative compliance mechanisms.

    In comments regarding the type of regulation appropriate for the electricity sector in California, the California Independent System Operator (CAISO) submits that a major goal of California policy should be to facilitate the establishment and implementation of federal or other West-wide policies.5 Other stakeholders hold the opinion that California should defer a cap-and-trade program until it can be implemented on a wider level to ensure integration of key components, such as transferability of allowances. These stakeholders were overruled: in June 2008, the California Air Resources Board (CARB) released a "climate change draft scoping plan" that lays out the framework for meeting the requirements of AB32 and includes the creation of a carbon cap and trade program. The cap and trade program, which is proposed for launch in 2012, will be designed to link with WCI, also scheduled to launch that year.

    Initiatives in the South

    Florida's Governor Crist issued an executive order in July 2007 that directed the Florida Department of Environmental Protection to cut GHG emissions statewide. The Florida Energy and Climate Commission has begun discussion of a carbon cap-and-trade system for Florida6, and word is out that another group may be forming in the Southeast (although no information is provided regarding which states may be involved).7

    So far, no regional initiatives encompass the major coal-producing states nor the largest energy producing state and largest emitter of CO2 in the United States, Texas.8 No observers seem to be anticipating that these states would willingly join a GHG regulation program. Enough industry and public pressure may change that direction, but it is much more likely to take a national mandate for these states to participate in GHG regulations.

    U.S. Mayors Climate Protection Agreement

    On February 16, 2005, the day that the Kyoto Protocol took effect, Mayor Nickels of Seattle challenged mayors across the country to participate in the U.S. Mayors Climate Protection Agreement. Under the Agreement, participating cities commit to taking the following three actions: strive to meet or beat the Kyoto Protocol targets in their own communities; urge states and the US federal government to enact policies and programs to meet or beat the GHG emission reduction target suggested for the U.S. in the Kyoto Protocol; and urge the U.S. Congress to pass GHG legislation that would establish a national emission trading system. 935 mayors have now signed the Agreement, including many in the coal and energy producing regions. It does not appear that this is a platform for developing new mandatory GHG regulations, but it does indicate an acceptance and willingness on the part of local leaders.

    Leveling the playing field

    Pressure is growing to have consistency in GHG regulations. The uncertainty of future regulation is having a very real impact on the electric power industry and other industries in the United States. Not knowing the schedule or scope of possible GHG requirements makes it extremely difficult for companies to make decisions that have long-term business and environmental implications. For example, it is becoming increasingly difficult to finance coal-fired power plants.

    Since RGGI does not require utilities to purchase allowances for electricity imported to the region, power plants regulated by RGGI are competing with power plants located outside of the RGGI jurisdictional area and are therefore at a disadvantage. New Jersey is the first state to address this issue, by enacting legislation that requires the public utilities board to formulate a plan to reduce the risk of increased coal-fired electricity imports.9 Similarly, companies located within the WCI will be competing with companies not subject to WCI rules and costs. As stated by Eileen Claussen, President of the Pew Center on Global Climate Change, many in corporate America are ready for the certainty that a well-designed national policy will afford them.10

    How might the patchwork of new and upcoming regulations eventually mesh together?

    It makes sense that regional initiatives, as they become established, would choose policies that keep the door open to merging with other programs. For example, an emissions trading market formed as part of WCI could be linked to RGGI,11 where emissions from power plants are interchangeable.

    Measuring, Reporting, and Verification of GHG Emissions

    The Climate Registry (TCR) was formed in 2007 to be a common GHG reporting system using consistent and verified data infrastructure. All of the WCI states and provinces have joined TCR, as well as many other jurisdictions and businesses not signed up with a cap-and-trade program at this time, including the Idaho DEQ and the State of Colorado.

    Regarding verification of emissions, the WCI intends to "root the program in international standards and best practices, to ensure high quality data, and to promote consistency across similar mandatory greenhouse gas reporting and cap-and-trade programs" and names two International Organization for Standardization (ISO) standards as applicable verification programs.12

    Consistency among the programs in documenting GHG emissions is a key to fairness during eventual integration, and the creation of regulatory standards for certain aspects of GHG regulation is well underway. In early 2008, the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) launched an accreditation program to standardize the process for documenting and verifying GHG emissions which, as a consequence, standardizes the measuring of emission reductions. The ANSI Standard is recognized by The Climate Registry and the California Climate Action Registry (CCAR).

    On March 10, 2009, the EPA proposed a mandatory GHG reporting rule. The rule would apply to suppliers of fossil fuel and industrial chemicals, manufacturers of motor vehicles and engines, and sources that emit 25,000 metric tons per year of CO2e. The purpose of the rule is to collect an estimate of GHG emissions data that can be used in future policy decisions. The proposed monitoring and GHG calculation methodologies for many source categories are the same as, or similar to, the methodologies contained in State reporting programs such as The Climate Registry, the California Climate Action Registry. EPA states that similarity in the methods will help maximize the ability of individual reporters to submit the emissions calculations to multiple programs. The proposed mandatory GHG report rule will be open for public comment for 60 days once it has been published in the Federal Register. Although EPA does not indicate the date of publication, the two public hearings which will occur during the public comment period have been scheduled in April 2009.

    Groups have suggested that EPA's proposed mandatory GHG reporting requirement implies that CO2 is a pollutant "subject to regulation" under the Clean Air Act. Therefore, CO2 would be subject to New Source Review (NSR) and Prevention of Significant Deterioration (PSD) permitting requirements. The first hurdle with this approach is assessing whether NSR or PSD would apply at locations of CO2 emission sources since there is not a National Ambient Air Quality Standard (NAAQS) for CO2. Most consultants and lawyers who work with the current NSR/PSD program will agree that it is not adequately structured to address CO2. The consequences of using the current structure would make nearly every combustion source a major source of CO2 (threshold of 250 tpy), and other criteria pollutants could potentially trigger NSR/PSD requirements if the significant emission rates are exceeded (lower thresholds ranging from 15 tpy to 100 tpy). CO2 and the other criteria pollutants that trigger the requirements for a major source or major modification would then be required to go through the rigorous Best Available Control Technology (BACT) or Lowest Achievable Emissions Reduction (LAER) analysis, depending on the NAAQS attainment status of the location, as well as air quality impacts analyses. The emissions thresholds were put in place for a reason - to not unduly burden smaller sources. The result of adding CO2 to the program with the same thresholds and requirements as the other criteria pollutants would be a paperwork and bureaucratic nightmare. If the main motivation of the NSR/PSD applicability argument is to have regulations to control GHG emissions, it is logical that as alternative strategies such as cap-and-trade move forward, the NSR/PSD argument would recede or the program would be restructured to more adequately address GHG emissions (e.g., a higher major source threshold for CO2).

    Consistency in Offsets

    "Carbon offsets" are allowances that are purchased to offset a certain quantity of carbon emissions in lieu of mitigation. If the purchase of carbon offsets becomes incorporated into a national program, the regulation of the offsets needs to be standardized. RGGI allows emission offsets to be used for compliance for 3.3% of a power plant's obligations; RGGI currently allows the Kyoto Protocol's Clean Development Mechanism (CDM) Certified Emission Reduction credits (CERs) to be used under certain circumstances. RGGI has not yet finalized the offset component of the program; expected to be available in early 2009. The CDM program, which started with its first project in 2004, was intended to spur low-carbon emission projects in developing countries by having those projects sell credits to the Kyoto countries; whether this has happened as planned is another debatable topic. Some of the criticism is regarding inadequate standardization of the carbon measurements, demonstrating again the need for appropriate and consistent standards.

    The CCAR has developed a new offset verification scheme called the Climate Action Reserve (CAR), although these CAR offsets are not on the market yet. Green e-certification is another program to certify companies that sell offsets.13 Other verification standards include the Gold Standard, developed in Switzerland, and the Voluntary Carbon Standard (VCS). Although the VCS is based on the ISO GHG methodology, it has been criticized for not having strict enough standards. The Gold Standard was developed by the World Wildlife Fund and claims to be much more stringent; however, the cost for a Clean Development Mechanism project to obtain Gold Standard certification starts at $10,000.14 In time, the US will adopt the most applicable standard, or will develop its own system.

    Voluntary Carbon Allowance Trading

    Some businesses are already participating in a GHG allowance trading and voluntary emissions reduction program, called the Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX). CCX describes itself as a self-regulatory exchange that administers a voluntary, legally binding pilot program for reducing and trading GHG allowances in North America. Offsets are independently verified by a CCX-approved verifier to assess a project's equivalent GHG reduction. Current members include well known companies such as AEP, Ford Motor Company, Rolls-Royce, DuPont, IBM, and Amtrak. The CCX is an example of a working model that could be scaled up for wider application of carbon allowance trading administered by a non-governmental organization.

    Impacts on the Economy

    For the consumer, increasing regulations on energy production will increase the costs of products that rely on electricity for production, which is essentially everything. These regulatory costs will reverberate throughout the economy until the costs of alternatives to fossil fuel combustion, or CO2 capture technologies, become comparable to pre-regulation costs. Portfolios of power generating companies will likely become more diversified in response to both CO2 regulations along with renewable portfolio standards. Again, costs will be borne by the consumer as electricity prices respond to more expensive methods of generating electricity. The costs may be offset by conservation and efficiency efforts to some degree.

    Will Regulations in the USA Truly Mitigate Climate Change?

    This paper does not go into detail about the affect of GHG regulations on actual reductions in emissions resulting in actual decrease in climate change. If the main result of regulations is that sources simply pay for the right to emit greenhouse gases, and pass the costs along to the consumer, the benefits of mitigating climate change will not be realized. If, however, regulations result in improved efficiency, conservation, and the replacement of fossil fuel based electricity with renewable resources, then the benefits will be realized. Powerful arguments can be made on both sides; the author is hopeful that the latter case will result.

    Also, the United States is not alone in the formidable task of mitigating climate change; one estimate based on 2004 data indicates that the US emits 22.2% of global emissions.15 As countries such as China and India use more energy, decreases in GHG emissions from the US could be eclipsed by increases in those and other countries without any GHG control. A report by IPCC states that "some large developing countries are projected to increase their emissions at a faster rate than the industrialized world and the rest of developing nations as they are in the stage of rapid industrialization. For these countries, climate change mitigation and sustainable-development policies can complement one another; however, additional financial and technological resources would enhance their capacity to pursue a low-carbon path of development." Although the statement sounds positive, exactly what the specific financial and technological resources are, and how they would be implemented or distributed, are issues that loom large.

    Summary

    As stated in an article regarding carbon market trading16, the federal government stands to gain a great deal from the trials and tribulations of RGGI, WCI and the European Union carbon trading scheme when developing a national program; the regional groups being referred to as "learning laboratories" for the federal government.

    The next three to five years will be very revealing, as RGGI begins to ratchet down its cap, WCI becomes mandatory, California launches its initiatives, and a federal mandatory reporting program develops. The regional mandatory programs are putting to the test GHG measuring, reporting, trading, offset, and verification systems that will be scrutinized by a wide variety of interested parties. Ideally, a resulting federal program would incorporate the most successful aspects of the regional programs to provide the nation its best opportunity to reduce GHG emissions while minimizing administrative and economic burden. Time and experience will reveal how this will play out.

    With profits at stake for some stakeholders, entrenched ways of life at risk for others, and simply due to the democratic process, the development of regulations is contentious and slow. If the result of GHG regulations includes conservation, efficiency and a gradual replacement of fossil-fuel based electricity with renewable resources, then the mayhem of regulatory changes will have been worth it.

    Endnotes

    1. Amanda Griscom Little, "Cap of Good Hope," Grist Magazine, Click Here, April 6, 2006.

    2. Inventory of U.S. Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Sinks: 1990-2007, EPA. Click Here

    3. Drake Bennett, "Emission Control," The Boston Globe, December 18, 2005. Click Here

    4. The Hamilton Consulting Group, Andrew Cook, "Midwestern Greenhouse Gas Reduction Accord Update." January 16, 2009. Click Here

    5. California Public Utilities Commission website. Click Here

    6. Carbon Offsets Daily website. January 27, 2009. Click Here

    7. Electric Power & Light magazine, Climate Change Legislation, by Nancy Spring. March April 2008 Click Here

    8. The Dallas Morning News, Elizabeth Souder, December 3, 2008. Click Here

    9. Union of Concerned Scientists, Imported Coal Power Could Undermine Northeast Global Warming Cap-and-Trade System, December 19, 2008 Click Here

    10. Speech by Eileen Claussen, President, Pew Center on Global Climate Change, to the American Gas Association Executive Conference, October 6, 2008. Click Here

    11. Paving the Way for National Climate Change Leadership: Provincial and National Actions in Canada, EM Magazine, AWMA, February 2008

    12. ISO 14064-3 and ISO 14065

    13. Jennifer Boynton, post to Triple Pundit website. June 17, 2008 Click Here

    14. Author not named. Post to Triple Pundit website June 9, 2008 Click Here

    15. List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions, Wikipedia.org. Click Here

    16. Tilde Herrera, Putting a Cost on Carbon, ClimateBiz. September 25, 2008. Click Here

     

    Readers Comments

    Date Comment
    Ferdinand E. Banks
    7.17.09
    Let's see what we have here. According to the last paragraph before the summary, the efforts of e.g. the US can be offset by 'carbon carelessness' on the part of other countries. A version of Murphy's law might be appropriate here: IF IT CAN BE OFFSET, IT WILL BE OFFSET!

    This does NOT mean that I am against efforts to reduce emissions, but why cap-and-trade? Here in Sweden the ignoramuses in government and the academic world buy cap-and-trade because they think that it will make them popular when they are drifting through the corridors of the European Union headquarters, but apart from that, only a few neurotics really believe that it makes economic sense.

    As much as I hate to recommend his work, I suggest that you examine what Professor David Victor (of Stanford) says about cap-and-trade.

    Edward A. Reid, Jr.
    7.18.09
    When you believe that you are digging yourself into a hole, the first logical imperative is to STOP DIGGING. Then and only then does it make sense to begin filling in the hole. In this instance, that means stop increasing annual GHG emissions; then, begin reducing annual emissions, as required, to achieve the desired climatological and/or political outcome. Finally, if necessary, begin extracting GHGs from the atmosphere to achieve the optimal concentrations.

    No matter what the US and the other developed countries do, the developing countries must cease increasing their emissions if atmospheric GHG concentrations are to be stabilized. The developing countries are currently increasing their emissions faster than the developed countries could reasonably be expected to reduce their emissions. China is currently increasing its emissions five times faster than Waxman-Markey would require the US to reduce its emissions. If that situation persists, atmospheric GHG concentrations would continue to rise, albeit at a somewhat slower rate than would otherwise have been the case.

    Ultimately, stabilizing atmospheric GHG concentrations would require a 99.95% reduction in global annual CO2 emissions plus the elimination of GHG from animal husbandry. Draconian population controls might also be required. I view the likelihood of this occurring as somewhere between "none" and "you've got to be kidding me". In the meantime, the US Northeastern and Western states can "play in their neighborhood sandboxes" to their hearts' content, secure in the knowledge that the perceived problem is beyond their ability to resolve, or even noticeably impact.

    Regrettably, many of the approaches being pursued to achieve their regional objectives will likely result only in gain-less economic pain. Many of the technologies viewed as necessary to "save the globe" are "not ready for prime time". When the excrement finally encounters the wind turbine, there will be more than enough to go around; and, those who began the process will have nowhere to hide.

    Jeff Presley
    7.20.09
    Having your own no-GHG zone is precisely like having your own no-peeing section in the swimming pool. Fine if it makes you feel better, but you'd still better not drink the cool-aid, er I mean water.

    As today's Wall Street Journal mentions, India isn't playing along on GHG emission limits. Naturally, with approximately 1 billion people each, India and China prefer to be judged on a per capita basis rather than in absolute terms. However, the NET effect is gigatons of new carbon regardless. As Ed and I have stated before, it won't matter what WE do if everyone else isn't playing the same game by the same rules. Even when they are playing by the rules, well Kyoto wasn't supposed to be perfect was it?

    James Carson
    7.20.09
    “For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?" - Geologist Dr. David Gee the chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress who has authored 130 plus peer reviewed papers, and is currently at Uppsala University in Sweden.

    Edward A. Reid, Jr.
    7.20.09
    Waxman-Markey, applied globally with the sole exception of China, would not halt the increase in global annual emissions, no less stabilize atmospheric concentrations.

    Balance of globe: 80% - (40 years * 0.80 * 2%/yr.) = 16% of current global annual

    China: 20% + (40 years * 0.20 * 10%/yr.) = 100% of current global annual

    Total: 16% + 100% = 116%

    If all of the developing countries follow China, the numbers are even worse.

    If the available "green technologies" are as much better and cheaper as Dr. Romm and others would have us believe, China and India should immediately cease building new, 40-60 year life coal plants and shift to these "green technologies". Maybe China and India did not get the e-mail.

    Ferdinand E. Banks
    7.21.09
    Why not just tell it like it is: Waxman and Markey, whoever they are, don't know very much about the topic being discussed, and their advisors are ignoramuses. BUT, as I've always said, so what!

    We are going to need a new energy economy, and if it takes an iron-cast belief in Kyoto and global warming to get it, then so be it. The point is that what Waxman and Markey should have done was to introduce a bill having to do with subsidies. You know, they should be increased. More subsidies are probably going to be essential in order to get the energy policy we deserve, although I haven't bothered to figure out the details. I do know the first step in financing them, however. Complete withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan immediately.

    Ian McQueen
    7.21.09
    All these regulations, nail-biting, etc., are based on a belief that it has been PROVED that carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is affecting climate and that we are inexorably headed for a "global warming crisis". The facts are inconveniently different. The world is not worming. It appears to have stopped warming 10 years (!!!) ago and has been cooling since at least 2002. There is no scientific basis for a belief that CO2 is affecting climate. This belief is based only on computer models, and anyone who reads on the subject knows that the programs are not trustworthy. It goes on and on, but the underlying fact is that there is NO reason for restricting CO2 emissions. They are not causing the world to warm up, and increased levels benefit the plants that we depend on. So.....all these fancy schemes for reducing CO2 emissions are built on a faulty foundation. They are wonderful for bureaucrats and are giving power to "environmentalists" that they could never attain through the ballot box. But spending billions to reduce CO2 emissions would be money down a rathole and would have ne discernible effect on climate.

    Don Hirschberg
    7.21.09
    I have exchanged a couple letters with Senator Pryor regarding the energy bill. A recent letter parallels much that has been said above by Ed Reid and others:

    I would be be opposed to any energy/global-warming bill that makes promises that cannot be fulfilled.

    I say given the existing energy situation and a population of 6.8 billion people and growing there is no combination of things that can be done to solve our problems. Basically there is only one problem: Too many people. Globally we are too many and too late. When I was born world population was about to tick over to 2 billion. Only a thousand years ago it was 0.3 billion, the population of the US today.

    Secretary Clinton is in India hectoring that country to reduce CO2 emissions. How absurd. Here is the situation in India today: 0.6 billion Indians have no electrical service. 0.5 billion Indians are connected to service but have numerous outages. They have a coal supply problem with many generating plants operating precariously with only a few days of coal on hand. They have never been able to supply minimal electricity –say for lighting because the country didn’t have the money to build the least expensive plants to run on the least expensive fuel. Now we are badgering them to use far more expensive power generating methods.

    The Kyoto Protocol was a fraud from the start. What could be easier than agreeing to an agreeable future for which no one will ever be accountable? Since Kyoto world population is greater, we have many millions more gasoline powered cars while remaining resources are less and we are emitting considerably more CO2.

    Would those who say science and technology “will come up with something” also say the reason we haven‘t found unicorns is because we have not been looking diligently enough? There was great hope for nuclear fusion back about 1950 though we were warned it might take 50 years to develop. In 2009 we are advised a fusion plant is at least 50 years off.

    Too bad we are getting a new coal burning power plant in Arkansas. But in perspective, so what. China has been building about two coal burning power plant a week for several years. They are financed and built to run for 40 - 50 years. Will the Chinese be asked a few months from now in Denmark to shut these plants down?

    I don’t know of many politically correct ways to get rid of billions of people, hardly an appealing campaign issue, and that alone assures that even discussion of population remains strictly taboo. In denial or not population will go down.

    Len Gould
    7.22.09
    Ian McQueen: "are based on a belief that it has been PROVED that carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is affecting climate" ... "facts are inconveniently different." ... "But spending billions to reduce CO2 emissions would be money down a rathole and would have ne discernible effect on climate."

    Since you're so high on PROVING things before (taking/not taking) any action, where's your PROOF that the "facts are inconveniently different." ? Certainly the physics weighs in against you, and the Moon (identical insolation, no atmosphere so no greenhouse effect, average >30 degC colder than earth). Bottom line is that the "market" alone cannot handle fossil fuel depletion, because it operates on too short a time line. By market economics, little or no investment will go into alternatives until the last barrel of oil is burned, by which time it will be too late. Markets (including Cap and Trade for CO2 emissions) don't work unless pushed, poked and prodded to produce outcomes beneficial to the species in the long term. Given that a system such as enforced CO2 emissions reductions is one of the best prods available to get markets to take action to mitigate the imanent (dropoff in worldwide petroleum production / dramatic increase in petroleum price / dramatic effects economically worldwide) eg. actions such as developing alternative generation technology and electrified transport systems, I fail to see why anyone would oppose.

    At the very least, those who oppose GHG emissions reductions should be required to propose their alternative pathway to an oil-import-free economy within (estd) the next 20 to 30 years max., including how people are to be convinced to start paying now for a long-term future benefit.

    Edward A. Reid, Jr.
    7.22.09
    Len,

    And here, all this time, I thought we were trying to "save the globe" from a climate catastrophe. Silly me!

    If your real concern is replacing imoorted gasoline, propose a program designed to do so.

    Ed

    Len Gould
    7.22.09
    Don: "The Kyoto Protocol was a fraud from the start. " -- post-event excuse making.

    Len Gould
    7.22.09
    Ed: I'm convinced that raising CO2 and Methane levels in atmosphere to numbers not seen in over a million years is a stupid and needless experiment with the only spaceship we know of which can support our species. However, it appears that a few of your are quite vocal in objecting to mitigation attempts, so perhaps some alternative points are in order.

    Edward A. Reid, Jr.
    7.22.09
    Len,

    Kyoto was a fraud from the start because: 1) a 7-8% reduction in emissions from the developed countries would not have reduced the global annual emissions on an absolute basis; 2) a 7-8% reduction in emissions from every nation on the globe would not have halted the increase in atmospheric concentrations; 3) any program which attempts to reduce global emissions while some nations continue to rapidly increase emissions is doomed to failure; and, 4) the participants knowingly and willfully withheld critical information regarding the efficacy of the program from the billions of people who would have been affected by it.

    The performance of a number of the signatories since the Accords were signed (including Canada) is all the proof of fraud which I believe should be necessary to convict.

    Ed :-)

    Don Hirschberg
    7.22.09
    Sorry Len, When Kyoto was still going on I heard enough to conclude it was an impossible goal. I didn’t hear anything said about billions of people who wanted electricity, running water and even, gasp, cars! I didn’t hear any arithmetic except for how many gazillions of tons of CO2 we were putting into the air.

    No, I don’t need a “post event excuse.” Perhaps it’s the creators and signers that should be offering their excuses.

    Len Gould
    7.22.09
    So Ed claims that Kyoto was a fraud "because it would accomplish nothing" yet Don claims it was a fraud because "it was an impossible goal". All jsut postured excuses for having torpedoed it.

    Ferdinand E. Banks
    7.23.09
    I signed on as an opponent of Kyoto almost immediately after that show hit the road. Why? Because one of the suggestions of the organizaing committee or someone associated with that committee was that UNCTAD - The United Nations Committee on Trade and Development - would manage the show. You see. I had worked for UNCTAD as an econometrician for three years, and I couldn't imagine a more dedicated group of do-nothings and know-nothings.

    More important, I understood that the key thing during the meeting at Kyoto would be for many of the participants in that meeting to make sure that they had tickets to the next talkathon. And I want you to take particular notice of the expression KEY THING - you know, as in K-E-Y T-H-I-N-G. It wasn't though until after Kyoto, and my realization that nuclear had not been taken up, and cap-and-trade was going to be the big item in emissions suppression that I began using words like scam and fraud.

    But that doesn't have anything to do with global warming! The anti-global warming people have rounded up some geologists and various pseudo scientists to plead their cause, as well as windbags like Lord Monckton and Paul Johnson, but my position is and will remain that as long as the very great majority of climate physicists say that AGW is the real deal, then I have no choice but to take off my hat and place it over my heart when the crusade passes by. Besides, the really important thing is to get a new energy economy, and to get it as soon as possible, and if that new energy economy looks the way that I think that it should look, it will be a big help in reducing greenhouse 'emissions'.

    I've said that so many times that it begins to sound trivial to my good self, but I noticed in my newspaper this morning that a trio of high level energy ignoramuses offered their thoughts on the coming climate circus in Copenhagen, and those thoughts were pure Kyoto - that is to say worthless. So remember that when you hear about the resounding success of the Copenhagen travesty.

    Edward A. Reid, Jr.
    7.23.09
    Len,

    Did the US torpedo Kyoto by not committing to it? Did Canada torpedo it by committing and then not complying? Did the developing countries torpedo it by calling "bullcrap" from the start?

    Don appears to be correct with regard to Canada, at least.

    I believe I am correct from a global perspective.

    Ed

    Don Hirschberg
    7.23.09
    I have tried to assess Kyoto compliance. Seems as if this would be a straight forward task on the internet. Maybe I have not been diligent enough but I confess to giving up. I also confess to not having read all the Kyoto fine print. (I can almost always make that confession.)

    There is stuff on the internet that purports to tell us about compliance but I find it all too tricky for me to understand. Seems to me if a country has complied or is on track for complying that should not be hard to say. I am wrong.

    As far as I am concerned the signatory countries made two declarations or contracts to the world: That they honestly subscribed to the basic goal that CO2 emissions could be reduced to 1990 (?) levels and that their country would comply.

    But it gets trickier. Denmark’s whole population would only make a large suburb of Mexico City, and they buy all the stuff that produces lots of CO2 from other countries. When their windmills don’t make enough electricity they buy it from neighbors. They build ships but not from their iron ore and coal mines. Give the Danes an “A.” The Indians, not a signatory, present a quite different story. Far more Indians have no electric power, zilch, than the combined populations of all the European countries. Getting even minimal electricity for lighting will mean more coal fired power plants. A whole lot more.

    All this was known at Kyoto. Yet we were swamped with pious pronouncements that ignored the salient facts. The nay-sayers were characterized as quite wicked troglodytes. The essence of fraud is deception. Kyoto was deception. Kyoto was fraud.

    Michael Keller
    7.24.09
    Very informative and timely article

    Might be an interesting (but difficult) exercise to assess the economic impact of RGGI on the Northeast. The Midwest (Kansas & Missouri) are wisely not mandating anything while the Northeast already has. Perhaps a good contrast would be comparing power costs between the Northeast and Midwest, with the rate of increase a rough measure of the impact. Unemployment might also be a possible measure.

    I suspect the Northeast and California are going to find out the hard way that their attempts at regulating greenhouse gases are not only futile but stunningly damaging to their economies.

    Len Gould
    7.25.09
    Ed and Don: Canada's economy is extremely tightly integrated to the US, eg. we are your largest trading partner by total turnover bar none, in the world. U.S. Trade Balance, by Partner Country 2008 in descending order of trade turnover (imports plus exports) There was NO WAY that Canada could economically take the steps necessary to meet Kyoto if the USA did not.

    I love it. US, by refusing to join the effort to meet Kyoto reductions, guarantees tha Canada cannot, then ridicules Canada for not meeting the requirements.

    James Carson
    7.25.09
    “I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion.” - Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever. What do you think of his apostasy, Len?

    Ferdinand E. Banks
    7.26.09
    Better watch it Don, even though Kyoto was very definitely a fraud. That's why we have these arguments between pro and anti warming. All this should have been settled - really settled - in a thirty or forty page document, written by the kind of persons involved in the dispute on this subject in this forum. clearly listing positives and negatives, and turned over to the persons attending the Kyoto meeting a month or so before the meeting so that they and their experts and advisors could have at least given the impression that they were intelligent. Then, even if mistakes were made, we would not be using the word fraud.

    Or maybe there should have been two papers for the delegates to haggle over, PRO AND ANTI, but in any event there must have been a sensible or logical way to approach this issue that would not have resulted in a....a....FRAUD!.

    Don Hirschberg
    7.26.09
    Len wrote: “I love it. US, by refusing to join the effort to meet Kyoto reductions, guarantees tha Canada cannot, then ridicules Canada for not meeting the requirements.”

    The US as a non-signatory has done more for the program than many countries who did sign. Many countries have excuses for not meeting their Kyoto commitments. I cannot asses how well Canada’s excuse ranks among the others. The US was like the kid who said the king has no clothes. As for ridicule, I am much too sensitive to it and try to eschew it as diligently as I do obfuscation.

    Richard Vesel
    7.27.09
    Mr. McQueen,

    Wrong wrong wrong WRONG !!!

    Please research your claims before making them in a public forum...

    http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.A2.lrg.gif

    http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/info/warming/

    http://www.earthpolicy.org/Indicators/Temp/2008_data.htm#fig3

    Richard Vesel
    7.27.09
    Mr. Carson - see above note to Mr. McQueen

    Richard Vesel
    7.27.09
    Most of you seem to have nothing but ridicule and contempt for Kyoto, and the "baby steps" it represented in terms of man's potential energy and climate futures.

    I suggest that most initial attempts to conquer difficult problems might be judged as equally silly - "If man were meant to fly, he'd have been born with wings!" and all that sort of drivel. Having recently treated myself and my youngest of four children to a flight on a 1929 Ford TriMotor, and comparing that very inventive and practical design to modern air travel, I find the immediate juxtaposition of experiences comparatively demonstrating an 80 year advance in technology to be VERY inspiring.

    We should hope that similar efforts to improve man's energy & climate pictures advance as speedily, in spite of all the ridicule, contempt, spite and bile thrown at those initial baby step efforts.

    Regards, RWVesel

    Len Gould
    7.28.09
    Don: "The US as a non-signatory has done more for the program than many countries who did sign. ... The US was like the kid who said the king has no clothes. " -- So what's the deal you're claiming now? That the US refused to sign Kyoto because global warming is a hoax, but then actually did a better job of meeting Kyoto goals than other signatories??? Wierd. If the "whole thing is a hoax", why would you do that? Or brag about it? Sounds more like something to be embarassed about, eg, it's an admission that you screwed up by not signing in the first place. If you have the guts of your claimed convictins, then just hurry up and switch all electricity generation to coal asap.

    Don Hirschberg
    7.28.09
    Len, you attribute to me things I never stated and make accusations on the basis of how you choose to construe things. I admire and appreciate your ardor. Perhaps I don’t write clearly enough. I was worried about depletions before WWII. When I first heard about Fermi’s pile under the U. of Chicago stadium I realized there was a solution, confirmed by the two A-bombs that ended the war. And we hadn’t heard everything yet – fusion would be even better but we might have to wait 50 years. Very young, 50 years looked like forever. Alas In 2009 we hear fusion is “at least 50 years off.”

    I became interested with the report of the Committee of Rome. And with the Peaking of oil production in the US in 1970?. In retrospect I realized I had been a Peak Oiler since childhood although I only first heard the words in recent years. When I was born oil was not very important to the world. Most of the oil production and most of the cars were right here in the US.

    When I was a child our electricity was generated largely from coal hence our wonderful system of street cars, subways, El trains and interurban railroads all ran on coal. As did our great network of railroads that went everywhere. What a pity we threw it all away. All the big cities of the NE heated with coal. (There were no big cities (nor any “major league” sports) west of St. Louis or south of Cincinnati.) This worried me. World population had been growing exponentially and reached 2 billion. Now it’s 6.8 and growing at nearly 0.1 billion per year.

    I have often heard what “the leading scientists” say: We will starve because the top soil is blowing away (the dust bowl of the ‘30s), we will freeze because we are entering into a new Ice age, plate tectonics was ridiculed almost up to this day, denials of impacts causing dinosaur extinctions, and when we changed to the year 2000 airplanes would fall from the sky, power plants will shut down, banks will loose all their records, and computers would run amok, etc. etc. to name just a few off the top of my head. We heard that power would become so cheap it need not be metered.

    I need a bit more than “what leading scientists say.” Sure, CO2 is a green house gas, but so are water vapor and many other gases. What I do not know is how man’s CO2 figures into a very complex process. Computer modeling has produced some real howlers that we know of and likely some never revealed.

    No, Len I am not embarrassed. We should have built nuclear plant like crazy over the last decades. The basic problem is too many people. But who among you will speak up?

    Len Gould
    7.29.09
    Don: Good discussion. There is much I agree with, though I might wish to discuss lumping AGW in with eg. Y2K which was clear to me from the late 1990's largly a scam used by software service companies to raise revenue. In my own defense, I do strongly support increasing the proportion of nuclear generation in use povided capital costs (at least some of the numbers floating around lately) can be explained to me in advance. I also strongly support every ethical means of limiting population growth, and ideally reducing back to some more rational level.

    Don Hirschberg
    8.3.09
    Len

    You wrote: "I also strongly support every ethical means of limiting population growth, and ideally reducing back to some more rational level."

    I am unaware of ANY means, not to mention "EVERY ethical means." Alas, those who have controlled their population growth have done it without an ethical method but by no method at all except for responsibility and good sense at the family level. And all without the pill or the rubber. The Dutch, the Italians, the Danes, and others have never been a population problem and have made themselves less important in the world for doing the right thing. Can this be ascribed to lack of libedo?

    Let no good deed go unpunished,

    North American Indians avoided population growth not because they were enlightened but because they couldn't keep many babies alive. North of the Rio Grande there were only about an estimated 1 or 2 million (they didn't know how to count) when Europeans arrived.

    Len Gould
    8.4.09
    Don: It's widely taken as proven that the most effective means of population control is to a) provide prospective parents an alternative assurance of a decent life in their old age and b) provide women with equal status in all aspects of society. I also think it wouldn't hurt at all to get ALL the religious fundamentalists including the pope (and anyone else trying to increase their proportionate influence in a region by encouraging large families) the heck out of the issue.

    Len Gould
    8.4.09
    The US is a strange outlier among advanced economies, with a birth rate of 2.1 per female, significantly above replacement. I'd guess a combination of religious fundamentalism and uncertain economics for the underclasses?

    Don Hirschberg
    8.5.09
    Len, while I recognize patronizing when I see it I don’t appreciate it.

    You wrote “...provide prospective parents an alternative assurance of a decent life in their old age.” Who? The great father at the UN? A super nanny?

    You wrote “… provide women with equal status in all aspects of society.” Great, with the vast majority of world population in opposition?

    You wrote “…I also think it wouldn't hurt at all to get ALL the religious fundamentalists including the pope (and anyone else trying to increase their proportionate influence in a region by encouraging large families) the heck out of the issue.” Len, here we can talk. I don’t need restrictive adjectives like the “fundamentalists”, I’m a life-long atheist and I say a pox on all religion.

    A rate of 2.1 is about right for a stable population. I think we need a 1.0 rate for decades – the arithmetic is quite complicated, but it would insure a decreasing population. Alas, it is those who are least likely to get the word who are the problem. Draconian is too mild a word to describe what would be necessary. Are you prepared for Draconian and more?

    Len Gould
    8.5.09
    “...provide prospective parents an alternative assurance of a decent life in their old age.” Who? The great father at the UN? A super nanny? -- Whom do you suggest?

    Len Gould
    8.5.09
    Don "A rate of 2.1 is about right for a stable population." Wrong. - CIA World FactBook - Country Cmparisons::Total Fertility - "Rates above two children indicate populations growing in size"

    USA - 2.05

    Canada - 1.58

    Every other developed nation except New Zealand - < 2.00

    Suggest, Don, you start figuring out what the problem in the US is, or do I misunderstand you by presuming you meant "Draconian" measures only for "them other people".

    Don Hirschberg
    8.5.09
    Len, Where the CIA was explaining the TFR it read, “…rates above two children indicate population growing…” Fair enough. They did not write “2” or “2.0”. Actually you will find a TFR of 2.1 is, as I said, about right for a stable population. I don’t know what the stable TFR would be in a country that has an actual TFR of 7. North American Indians had a stable population but probably had a very high TFR.

    I wondered who could do the wonderful things you suggested, and asked because I didn’t know. You respond by asking me. Len wrote, “Suggest, Don, you start figuring out what the problem in the US is, or do I misunderstand you by presuming you meant "Draconian" measures only for "them other people". Look, I’m that annoying guy who keeps saying the big problem is too many people on this planet and no combination of proposed solutions will work unless population is reduced.

    Jeff Presley
    8.5.09
    Interestingly Don, though I get criticized for criticizing Len's frequent inaccuracies on this site, AND his bombastic nature in stating those inaccuracies, I feel compelled to correct him YET again. A TFR of 2.1 IS the replacement rate, because as usual Len didn't account for all the variables (parents and some young die you see).

    Total Fertility Rate (TFR)

    The total fertility rate is the average number of children that each woman will have during her lifetime. The TFR is an average because, of course, some women will have more, some fewer, and some no children at all.

    Theoretically, when the TFR = 2, each pair of parents just replaces itself.

    Actually it takes a TFR of 2.1 or 2.2 to replace each generation — this number is called the replacement rate — because some children will die before they grow up to have their own two children. In countries with low life expectancies, the replacement rate is even higher (2.2–3).

    Len Gould
    8.5.09
    On 8.05.09 Don writes "I think we need a 1.0 rate for decades "

    Not surprisingly, both of you missed the point I addressed, which was Don's call for a dramatic REDUCTION in earth population. 2.00, 2.05 or 2.10 isn't that. Canada's 1.58 is a LOT closer, while many EU countries are closer, see reference.

    Don Hirschberg
    8.5.09
    Len, I have written here and on many other postings that the problem lies not with such as “Italians and Danes and Dutch, etc” (and this time I will include the Canadians) because they have never been a population problem. We have billions of people living in countries with growing populations who do not have electricity. They are a problem. They want electricity. It wouldn’t come from nuclear plants @ billions of dollars a copy. It will come from coal burners, if they get it. These countries are the very ones that have very big TFRs. The CIA site you sent us to listed them.

    Len, I have never called for anything but world population reduction – literally for decades. I have expressed it as one child per woman which has been formalized into a TFR of 1.0, a term I had never used until this series of comments. But a country can have a stable or declining population with a high TFR. (Something like 20,000 children die of diarrhea per day. Yes, per day, when a few drops of laundry bleach in their drinking water could have saved nearly all of them.)

    I apologize to those who are moaning, “Don, you have told us this many times before.”

    Len Gould
    8.6.09
    Don: It sounds like we could quickly agree over a beer. I'm personally convinced, from my limited world travels, that many "3rd world" countries are simply, like eg. much of S. America, simply 50 years behind N. America in developing the accumulated capital plant necessary for a lifestyle comparable to ours. Hand-loading building materials on and off of single-axle trucks, winching them up onto highrises by hand. We'd never do that, because scarce labour's more expensive than the semi-trailer truck-carried forklifts and the tower cranes.

    The only places in real trouble are those like Somalia which cannot guarantee property rights and personal protection. If we could simply figure out an enforceable means to guarantee that corruption couldn't profit from international commerce.

    Len Gould
    8.6.09
    One should read "Single & Single" by John le Carre for an idea of what I'm against.

    Don Hirschberg
    8.6.09
    “…simply (they are) 50 years behind…” I don’t think so.

    Except and until the Hoover Plan after WWI and the Marshal Plan after WWII if you didn’t do it for yourself (your country, your family etc.) it didn’t get done. Help? Tough luck. During the 30’s million of Chinese literally starved to death, (FDR’s New Deal was sewering milk and plowing under food crops to support prices), likely tens of millions starved in the USSR by political design even while attracting in the US many people to that marvelous “from each according to his abilities, for each according his needs” Communism. Especially the best educated, the PhD’s, and almost to a man those who controlled teacher education. We have not recovered to this day.

    Fifty years ago we north of the Rio Grande (I don’t want to say North America because that includes all the countries clear down to Columbia though few seem to know it) and Europe had developed pretty much our present condition – maybe better.

    2) People 1 are not people 2. Those Vikings who raped and pillaged much of Northern Europe and beyond were not exactly like their victims. When Hengist and Horsa rowed over to what we call the UK they were different than those they displaced to the hills of Wales and Scotland and to Ireland. When Samuel Johnson wrote the first comprehensive English dictionary he snidely defined oats as food in Scotland and (horse) feed in England. And when Europeans displaced the American Indian they were somehow different. Curiously these invaders were all Germanic. Here is an example where they were not: those earlier Chinese now called Japanese displaced the people then on the islands they were not like those they found there, and to this day clearly consider them inferior. Not a matter of 50 years.

    3) Egypt is a developing country. Think about that. Are they now 50 years behind when they were thousands of years ahead? When my ancestors were likely wearing animal skins they were writing and building huge buildings and the pyramids. Thousands of years vs 50 years?

    4) Slavery. We automatically think of slavery as that which existed in what became the US and persisted (however briefly, but too long) until the Civil War. Slavery had been practiced for thousands of years before then. The Bible uses not one pejorative about it so God must have approved of it. The Africa to the Americas slave trade was egregious. But who among us should feel any guilt? The victims were rounded up by other blacks, Muslims both black and Arab. The countries where these people were enslaved are populated by the descendants of the enslavers who were enriched in the deal. These people are more than 50 year behind.

    5) Today many cities have enormous populations. Mexico City has about a thousand times as many people as Athens of about 2400 years ago. Image, a thousand time as many. Yet we can name indiviginal Athenian Greeks who made significant contributions to mankind.

    Don Hirschberg
    8.8.09
    Why would anyone think that any international organization would be less corrupt than his own city hall or county seat? My people. Some are good, some are venal. I’d think more can be bought. We know from the example of rotten apples and barrels that this will not work. But the UN, its people, not the pompous pronouncements, seems to be very corrupt. Scofflaws, Jeezus, they routinely double park and won’t even pay their parking tickets in New York. Why should police and Judges bother when all they have to do is say “diplomatic Immunity” beyond the law and walk?

    We in the US don’t appreciate corruption as practiced in many countries. In many countries you have to pay a bribe: to get a drivers license, get a job, enroll a child in school, get a passport, etc. etc.

    Was it in Dickens’ David Copperfield, something like this, Fagin (?) says “If he won’t steal for himself why should I think he would steal for me?”



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