Surveyor General Proceedings

Depositions of Salvador Garcia, Pablo Crespin Abad Nieto, and Francis Martinez

Taken July 18, 1882

"Cañon de Carnuél

In the matter of the investigation of this private land claim, file No. 96, present Henry M. Atkins on, United States Surveyor General for New Mexico, David J. Miller, Translator and Chief Clerk of Surveyor General, and Samuel Ellison, attorney for grant claimants, witnesses were called and by and under direction of the Surveyor General examined and Salvador Garcia being by the Surveyor General duly sworn on his oath declares:

Question by Samuel Ellison, attorney for the grant claimants - What is your name, age, occupation and residence?

Answer - My name is Salvador Garcia, my age is 63 years, my occupation is farmer and my residence is San Miguel de Carnuél in the county of Bernalillo and Territory of New Mexico.

Q. - How far and in what direction is Carnuél from Alburquerque?

A. - I do not know, but they say it is about five leagues to the eastward.

Q. - Do you know by tradition or otherwise whether there is a grant at Carnuél?

A. - I do, from having seen it and heard it read.

Q. - Can you read and write?

A. - I cannot.

Q. - Do you know the boundaries of the grant at Carnuél? - if so state them.

A. - I do - they are on the N. the Paraje de San Antoñito, on the E. the Ceja de Facundo, on the S. the Giroteo and on the W. the Alto de la Sierra de la Puerta del Cañon.

Q. - How long have you known the place about which you are testifying?

A. - Since I went there and settled, now about forty years ago.

Q. - Was the place occupied when Kearny took possession of this Territory or not, and if it was by whom?

A. - It was occupied by the settlers then there - among them were Mateo Archuleta, Antoñio Martin, myself, and many others whose names I do not recollect.

Q. - Has the place been abandoned or not since that time?

A. - It has not.

Q. - State the name of the place you refer to and the names of the present residents there.

A. - The name is San Miguel de Carnuél and San Antoñio de Carnuél, the place containing these two towns and several other small towns, and some of the present residents, heads of families, are Pedro Baca, Teodoro Garcia, Vivian Garcia, Leon Jaramillo, Perfilio Gonzales,Manuel Baca, Vicente Jaramillo, Jose Herrera, Domingo Garcia, Jose Garcia, Juan Antoñio Garcia, Jesus Garcia,Paulo Crespin, Jose Crespin, Ramon Herrera, Pedro Jaramillo, Francisco Trujillo, Melquiades Garcia,Juan Garcia, Jose Cleto, Miguel Baca, Meliton Jinzo, Jose Antoñio Garcia, Jose de la Cruz Gonzales, Manuel Gonzales, Teodoro Griego,Rafael Griego, Antoñio Griego, and many others.

Q. - Did you ever hear of any claim adverse to that of those who now possess that property?

A. - I did not.

Q. - How far is it from the western line to the eastern line of the property in question more or less?

A. - I cannot say - perhaps four leagues and perhaps five leagues.

Q. - How far is it more or less from the southern to the northern boundary?

A. - About a like distance, about five leagues.

Q. - What settlements are upon the tract of land about which you are testifying?

A. - Coming from west to east the first plazita met is San Miguel de Carnuél, then the Tijera, then San Antoñio, which is the largest on the tract, then Cañoncito de Nuanes, and then the Sedillo, then el Cedro, then Ojo del Sabino, then Gutierrez.

Question by the Surveyor General - When did you see the grant?

A. - I cannot recollect - perhaps twenty years ago.

Q. - Where did you then see it?

A. - At San Antoñio when we brought it to Santa Fe.

Q. - What was your object in bringing it to Santa Fe?

A. - To get a patent from the President.

Q. - If you cannot read or write how did you know it was a grant to Carnué or what it was?

A. - Because the one who came with it with me to Santa Fe could read, and I heard it read by him.

Q. - When did he read it to you?

A. - Before leaving there.

Q. - Who was this who read it?

A. - Jose Antoñio Garcia now present.

Q. - How long did it take him to read it to you?

A. - He was one day without finishing the reading of it to me.

Q. - How do you know what the boundaries of this tract are?

A. - By the grant we had at home.

Q. - Did the grant give the boundaries you have named?

A. - It did.

Q. - You are interested in this grant, are you not?

A. - I am - I live upon the grant and have land there.

Q. - How long have the various parties you have named as living on the grant resided thereon or most of them?

A. - They have all lived there, some of them as far back as 1819, some have died and the others live there yet.

Salvador Garcia x his mark

Subscribed and sworn to before me this July 18, 1882

Henry M. Atkinson (signature)

Surveyor General

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Pablo Crespin being by the Surveyor General duly sworn on his oath declares:

Question by Mr. Ellison - What is your name, age, occupation and place of residence?

Answer - My name is Pablo Crespin, my age is 38 years, my occupation is farmer and my residence is at San Antoñio, Bernalillo county, New Mexico.

Q - How long have you lived there?

A - I was born and have always lived there.

Q - Do you know a grant of land known as the Carnué grant? If so, where is it situate?

A - I do - it is situate in the county of Bernalillo and Territory of New Mexico.

Q - Do you know the reputed and recognized boundaries of that grant by hearsay or otherwise?

A - I do know two of them myself and the others through tradition and repute.

Q - Which are the two boundaries you know, and please describe them?

A - They are the north and south boundaries, the former being the Paraje de San Antonito, a well known camping place, and the latter the Giroteo, or ridge.

Q - Has the place you are now testifying about ever been abandoned?

A - It has not to my knowledge.

Q - Has anyone else ever claimed the place except those who reside there?

A - No, nobody.

Q - Who resided there when you first knew the place and who resides there now?

A - When I first remember any one living there and when I became old enough to know, there wereJose Antoñio Garcia now present, Vicinte Sanchez, Salvador Garcia also now present, Juan Jose Jaramillo now deceased, Santos Gonzales deceased, Miguel Zamora deceased,Ignacio Trujillodeceased, Ignacio Lopez deceased, Antoñio Lopez deceased, Blas Muniz deceased, Juan Zamoradeceased, Juan Gutierrez, Nasario Lopez.

Q - Are there any copper, silver, or gold mines on the grant you are testifying about?

A - I do not understand anything about minerals, and do not know whether there are or not.

Question by Surveyor General - Have you any interests in this grant?

Answer - Yes, I reside upon it and have land in the grant.

Q - You have given two boundaries of this grant and state you know the other boundaries by general repute - what are they?

A - The eastern boundary is the Ceja del Facundo so called, and western is the summit of the mountain of Sandia.

Q - How far is it from the eastern boundary to the western boundary?

A - I cannot say definitely, but in my judgment there is probably eleven or twelve miles.

Q - How far is it from the northern boundary which you described to the southern boundary?

A - I cannot say definitely, but I think there is about fourteen or fifteen miles somewhat more or less.

Pablo Crispin (signature)

Subscribed and sworn to before me this July 18, 1882

Henry M. Atkinson (signature)

Surveyor General

Adjourned to July 19, 1882

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Investigation resumed this July 19, 1882 at 2 o'clock P.M. pursuant to adjournment.

Abad Nieto sworn by the Surveyor General and on his oath declares

Question by Mr. Ellison - What is your name, age, occupation, and residence?

A - My name is Abad Nieto, my age is 48 years, my occupation is Miner and my residence is Real de Dolores in Santa Fe county and New Mexico Territory.

Q - Are you acquainted with a land grant called the Carnuél grant? If so state where it is situated.

A - I am - such a grant lies in the county of Bernalillo and between the towns of San Antoñio and Alburquerque, and I have known the place about thirty years. It lies about nine legues in a southwesterly direction from where I reside.

Q - Have you been there frequently?

A - I have many times.

Q - Were you acquainted with any of the former residents and are you with any of the present residents of the Carnuél grant? If so whom?

A - I knew personally some of the former settlers of the tract, among them I remember and can mentionPablo Armijo now deceased, and threeCrespins whose given names I cannot remember, also oneNasario Lopez now deceased, those living who lives there still. Of those now living on the Carnuél grant I can mention the said Nasario Lopez, and Manuel Crespin, the old man Francisco Sanchez one of the first settlers.

Q - Has that place ever been abandoned since you have been acquainted with it?

A - I have never known it to be abandoned, but so far as I know people have always lived there.

Q - Do you know the boundaries of the Carnuél grant? If so state them.

A - I do not know them.

Question by the Surveyor General - How do you know that there was such a grant as the Carnuél grant?

Answer - I have not seen such a grant but have been told there is such a grant.

Q - Who told you so?

A - The Crespins I mentioned and also Jose Antoñio Garcia.

Q - When did they tell you?

A - Some fifteen years ago more or less, when they informed me there was a grant to the Carnuél people.

Q - How did they come to tell you so?

A - I heard it stated in sundry conversations at which I was present that there was such a grant, but I have never seen it. I heard of it in that way. I know the tract of land called the Carnuél grant, but know nothing of the title or grant therefor.

Q - In what direction and what distance from Alburquerque is this Carnuél tract?

A - Eastward about three leagues.

Q - All you know about this grant is what someone else has told you, is it not?

A - That is all - only what others have told me.

Q - Have you any interest in this grant?

A - I have none whatever.

Q - Are there any mines or minerals upon the tract in question?

A - I have been told there are mines upon it but I have not seen any myself.

Abad Nieto (signature)

Sworn to and subscribed before me this July 19, 1882

Henry M. Atkinson (signature)

Surveyor General

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Francisco Martinez being duly sworn on his oath declares.

Question by Mr. Ellison - What is your name, age, occupation and residence?

Answer - My name is Francisco Martinez, my age is 78 years, my occupation is farmer and miner and my residence is Real de Dolores in this county of Santa Fe and Territory of New Mexico.

Q - Are you acquainted with a tract of land commonly called and known as the Carnuél grant? If so state where it is situated and what are its boundaries if you know them.

A - I know such a tract in the county of Bernalillo in this Territory, but I am not acquainted with its boundaries. It is a place about three leagues to the eastward of the town of Alburquerque, and about nine leagues southwestwardly from Real de Dolores.

Q - About how long have you known the place?

A - Since about fifty years ago.

Q - Has the place ever been abandoned since you have known it?

A - During the fifty years I have known Carnuél I have never seen it abandoned.

Question by the Surveyor General - When did you live there upon the Carnuél tract?

Answer - I have never lived there. I have been upon it more than twenty times perhaps.

Q - How do you know whether there is any grant there?

A - I do not know whether there is a grant at the place. I have only stated that there were people living there since I first knew it.

Q - Who lived there when you first knew it?

A - There lived there when I first visited the place on our way to Chihuahua Francisco Lucero, dead now more than forty years, Juan Pablo Martin and Anselmo Martinez, some family or families called the Nuanes, and I did not know any other persons then living at Carnuél.

Q - Have you any interests in the result of this investigation?

A - None at all, great or small.

Q - Have you ever heard of any grant at this place?

A - I have not.

Francisco Martinez X his mark

Sworn to and subscribed before me this July 19, 1882.

H. M. Atkinson (signature)

Surveyor General"

SOURCE: Spanish Archives of New Mexico I, Microfilm reel 27, Surveyor General #150, "Cañon de Carnuel Land Grant" Fr.755 to 764.

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