4.3) What are options to glass clinking to get the couple to kiss?
4.4) Why is it rude to specify 'no gifts'?
4.5) What can I get the couple who has everything?
4.6) What should I do with the cards the department store gave me?
4.7) Do I have to buy someone something from their registry?
4.8) Can I use shower presents before the wedding?
4.9) Does my wedding need a theme?
4.10 What is a guest book besides a bunch of signatures?
4.11 What are the options for changing my name once I get married?
4.12 On what documents should I change my name?
4.13 What are favors?
4.14 What are some good favor ideas?
4.15 I am the Best Man in my friend's wedding. Are there any suggestions for good wedding pranks?
4.16 Why won't our church let us throw rice or confetti?
4.17 Is it true that rice is bad for birds?
4.18 What can we use if not rice or confetti?
4.19 I've been thinking about a butterfly release. Is this a good idea?
4.20 I What is the traditional gift given for 'X' Anniversary? What is the modern gift for 'X' anniversary?

If you have further questions about reading and posting to this or any other group, subscribe to news.newusers.questions. Whether yours is a technical question or a netiquette question, the people there are the ones who can best help you out. You can also check the FAQs in news.software.readers or ask your local system administrator for help with your news reader (trn, TIN, nn, etc.). This is also a good place to find help with technical questions or netiquette guidelines.

People have *very* strong opinions about some wedding issues. If you want to discuss some of these 'sensitive topics,' do so calmly and politely. Don't try to change someone else's beliefs, or attack them personally. After all, what may be viewed as tacky in your eyes may be viewed as a long-standing tradition in another person's family.

It should be noted that disagreeing with someone's ideas or plans does not constitute a flame. There have been many intense discussions on alt.wedding on such topics as money dances, cash bars, and same-sex marriages. While disagreement may be intense in these discussions, the statements are not necessarily flames, and should not be taken as such. Just because someone disagrees with your opinion does not mean they are flaming you.

+ Version 2.0 [Date???] As the original FAQ had fallen into serious disrepair and was not being posted on a regular basis, revisions were made by Lisa Ann Trainor (lisa@got.net) and Jay Dyson (jdyson@point-2-point.com).

+ Version 3.0 [3 Jan 1997] Along with the departure of Jay Dyson as maintainer of the alt.wedding home page, the FAQ was not being posted and/or revised on a timely bases. The maintenance job was taken over by Carrie L. Leonard (carrie @ kestrel.umd.edu).

+ Version 3.1) [20 Jan 1997] Added wedding pranks section, Revised discussion of flaming [28 Jan 1997] Revised some vendor discussion [16 Feb 1997] Added tag-ripping information, Modified gift guidelines

+ Version 3.2) [18 Apr 1997] Added Readings, Updated advertising guidelines 30 Apr 1997 Revised Advertising Guideline

+ Version 4.0 [12 August 1997] With Carrie Leonard's resignation as FAQ Maintainer, the job was handed over to Noe (rita_belle@yahoo.com).

+ Version 4.1) [27 December 1997] Revised advertising section. Added question about glasses in attire section. Added anniversary gifts. Added Pope's address.

+ Version 4.2) [30 January 1998] Revised sig-file portion of advertising section

+ Version 4.3) [02 October 1998] Updated web address. Revised some vendor discussion. Added to Jewish traditions and gifts sections.

+ Version 4.4) [28 February 1999] Added section about dress preservation. Added butterfly releases and an URL to a bubble FAQ to Section 4.1. Added to disposable cameras, gift registry, engagements.

+ Version 5.0 [01 April 1999] Maintenance passes to Ann Alias.

+ Version 5.01 [25 July 2002] Maintenance passes to D.J.

Topics about marriage in general, and not necessarily weddings, such as living together, finances, etc. are not off-topic for this group. A newlywed newsgroup (alt.newlywed) does exist, but many locations do not carry this newsgroup, so newlywed topics are not frowned upon by the alt.wedding participants.

Excessive Cross-Posting (ECP) and Excessive Multiple Posting (EMP) -- otherwise known as 'Spam' -- are not appreciated on A.W. Most Internet Service Providers (ISP's) do not tolerate commercial spamming of newsgroups and will terminate accounts over such activity. Users of alt.wedding who find spam and repeated advertising unwelcome should send email to the postmaster and poster at the offending site (please do not direct the post back to alt.wedding). Spams should not be reposted to the group in its entirety. Doing so only gives the offender more airtime. If a postmaster is unresponsive to complaints about spam, or is rude and refuses to try to curb the advertising, a post made to news.admin.net-abuse.misc advising others of this problematic site is certainly within the bounds of reason. For more information on UseNet and email abuse, please see the relevant FAQs in the news.answers newsgroup.

It should be noted that AW is an international forum and includes discussions of regional and cultural customs; it will be helpful to remember that there will be many traditions and topics that may be unfamiliar to you.

In the U.S., the tradition is different. Jeanne Hinds (jmhinds@mindspring.com) answers: 'Oh, please resist the urge!! More and more people are feeling obligated to bring a present for an engagement party and it just feeds this mentality that weddings are one big gift getting orgy. Traditionally, only the bride's or groom's parents gave engagement gifts and these were of a personal nature, nothing that was intended for married life together. The reason being that should the wedding be postponed or called off, the bride and groom are obligated to return *all* gifts intended for their married together.'

That said there are also some technical considerations when printing on envelopes. Depending upon the envelope, you may not get as good a printing as you had hoped for. Some textured envelopes may present a problem for your printer. Some printers may seal the envelope as it passes through the printer. To get around this, try inserting a piece of wax paper between the flap and the rest of the envelope. Wax paper is often the same type of material that labels come on.

Carrie Leonard (carrie@kestrel.umd.edu) answers: 'From personal experience, printing on envelopes is very tricky. We spent about an hour trying to get the heavy envelope just to go through the printer, let alone trying to get the text to line up correctly on our odd shaped envelope. We ended up hand writing them because it was just easier in the long run.'

Leslie Lawson (lolawson@uts.cc.utexas.edu) answers: 'Make sure early on that the envelopes are laser printable, if not, have an ink-jet printer available to you. During our printing trial run, the laser print smudged right off our very high quality, felt-finish, archival quality envelopes, even after letting them sit for a while. Also, because the paper was slightly textured, the laser print was irregular. But--much to my surprise--the print looked beautiful, clear and solid, and set very well when printed on my mom's ink jet printer (HP 660c). Feeding the envelopes through straight and having them go through one at a time was a big fat pain in the neck and took lots of patience, but we eventually finished all 120+ envelopes. We ended up wasting a lot of envelopes (one's that fed through crookedly, etc.), so be sure to have a minimum of 10% more envelopes than you have invitations to send.'

Deb McCoy (bridea2z@gate.net) answers: 'A wedding invitation is a very special piece of correspondence. It is the only time in your life (hopefully) that you'll send one to your family and friends. That's the reason that it's so important to take the time to hand-write them. It lets your family and guests know they are special--and that you've taken the time to make sure that they are.'

The bride and groom are the guests of honor at the wedding reception and therefore they arrive a tiny bit later than everyone else to make the grand entrance as the featured guests of honor. That is why it is considered impolite to arrive late since a latecomer could potentially 'steal the thunder' from an arriving guest of honor and it is disrespectful as well. Guests of Honor should always leave before other guests since well mannered guests know that it is rude and potentially disrespectful to leave a function before the guest of honor does. The guest of honor leaving is a signal to the other guests that it is OK to leave without offending anyone.'

If you are feeling rather royal you could stand on a balcony and ask them to applaud! Seriously, there are other suggestions. Singing songs with the word Love in them (such as 'Love and Marriage,' 'Burnin' Love,''Love is a Many Splendored Thing,' etc). Other options include putting notes involving tasks inside balloons. People burst a balloon and do the task (i.e.. sing a song, tell a joke, make a toast, do something embarrassing). You could also have a container with all the names of the couples in attendance. When someone wants the bride and groom to kiss, they pick the name of a couple out of the container. This couple must kiss first (to show how it's done, of course) and then the bride and groom will follow their example!

To list charities as the 'gift alternate', which I believe the original poster did, is the same as putting a list of registry items in with the invitation. Some people choose to give 'in name of' charitable donations as gifts (which, at least in Canada, produce a charity-deduction receipt for income-tax purposes, so the donor gets a 'cash-back' benefit). I got such a gift one year at Christmas, from friends who decided not to buy anyone gifts but to donate that money instead to a tree-planting project. That's fine. That was the giver's choice.

But I do think givers and guests need to be free to make a choice: couples may despair about some of guests' choices (one particularly hideous pseudo-silver casserole dish holder comes to mind, in our wedding stuff, an item we did trade in because it came with an exchange card attached), but taking the attitude that we're well off, and you're less well off, so don't give us a gift, may be kindly meant, but it is paternalistic. Both the 'no gift' dictators and the 'here is the registry list and buy specifically what I order you to buy' set. Suggestions from the wedding party, friends, or relatives to other guests are fine if, and only if, the guests ASK for suggestions. If guests don't inquire, then they should not be told either what to buy, or what they should not buy, when invited to a wedding.' --KT

Amy Breslin (hannaha-@mse-ajh1.eng.ohio-state.edu) wrote: 'The flip side of that is that if you state 'no gifts please' you are making the grand assumption that those invited should feel obligated to bring a gift in the first place. 'Gifts are never an obligation (ok, they shouldn't be - how's that? ;)) If someone chooses to bring a gift in response to your invitation stating that they aren't welcome - are they being rude? No, they're just being generous and wishing the couple well, or saying 'happy birthday - I thought of you and wanted you to have this token of my good wishes'. The point is that gifts are never to be EXPECTED and to feel that you have to come out and say that gifts are not wanted, means you were assuming that people would send or bring one.'

'We too were (and still are!) an older couple and we made up a suggestion list including items like theatre tickets, restaurant certificates. While people (like friends of my parents) still wanted to get us 'household stuff' rather than 'experience' gifts, these are good suggestions and many people will take you up on them. Whether you enjoy skiing or pro sports or ballet or camping or gardening, there are gift ideas. So think a bit more before you decide there is absolutely 'nothing' you might enjoy as a gift; you might be surprised by what you discover.'

Noe Spaemme: (ritabell@hotmail.com) writes: 'Registry information is always spread by word of mouth. You may tell people where you are registered when asked, but you may not volunteer this information. To do so would make it seem as if to be telling people that they must purchase a gift for you. Gift giving is always optional. To that end, you may not enclose registry information within invitations. Not any kind of invitation. Not bridal shower invitations, not children's birthday party invitations, not wedding invitations. I can assure you that people have a way of finding out where you are registered without notices.

Kelley Teahen (kteahen@lfpress.com) wrote: 'When a similar theme-thread moved last year, one bride-to-be, bless her, gave the perfect response: 'My theme is, getting married.' You don't need 'colours' or 'themes' or anything else, even though the gizmo-crazed bridal world will tell you this is expected. This is not the senior prom. This is a celebration of the marriage of the two of you. It's not an annual event that needs distinguishing marks to make it different than the ball held the year before. It is unique because it is your wedding, not anyone else's. If you happen to like ivy and use it in decorations and your invitations, fine.

Most people give an eye to colours only because clashing colours can make for bad photographs, and there usually is an effort to take some nice portraits for posterity on a wedding day. I've often organized themed parties and balls in volunteer fundraising work and it's amazing how many 'co-ordinates' one can pull in around a theme -- but why do it for a wedding, which already has a profound and beautiful theme?'

Other alternatives I've heard of: Have each guest sign a large photo mat; mount a wedding portrait with the mat and hang it in your home. Have someone take a Polaroid of each guest as the enter the reception or go through a receiving line; ask the guest to sign and/or write something on the edge or the back of the photo. Use fabric pens and ask people to write or draw on a tablecloth which you can then use for special dinners! You can also have a traditional guest book without buying a wedding-y one with a feather pen from an invitation supplier. You can buy a nice journal or guest book from any stationery store for as little as $5. And I know you have pens at home.'

In the US, to get a start on your social security change, go to http://www.ssa.gov/online/ss-5.html and download the application. Be sure to read the directions thoroughly, especially the part about having a certified copy of 'supporting documentation' which in this case means your marriage license. It's easy to change your name when you marry. Should you decide to go back to your unmarried name legally, the task is considerably more difficult.

1. Don't make a mess that will take longer than 10 minutes to clean up. Better yet, don't make a mess or cause damage unless you'll be there to help clean up and are willing to pay for professional cleaning or repairs. 2. Make sure you can call off the joke if it just isn't funny. 3. Avoid causing the bride or groom public humiliation. Or keep the practical jokes private if you want them to know that your sense of humor does not prevail over your respect for their wedding celebration. 4. Be prepared to apologize profusely to the bride, the groom, or their families if the joke is offensive to them. And be prepared to accept the loss of a friend if you manage to offend your friend's spouse or family.

I am sure some people think that this spoils all the fun, but this still leaves you free to do things like hide the groom's underwear and replace it with a sequined G-string, after all. (It might also be a good idea to tease your friend about wedding pranks a little, just to find out whether he can laugh at the idea. And, BTW, if you are not married, remember: what goes around comes around. My husband's best friend was beginning to feel creative, but that little reminder calmed him down quickly. ;-))

Personally, I also prefer to avoid any hijinks immediately before and during the actual ceremony. People can get nervous enough beforehand that something intended to be kind and thoughtful may cause a mini-crisis, and especially if the ceremony is religious, the risk of causing serious offense ('how could they do that--in a CHURCH!') is too great for me to accept. (I did, however, tell one friend about an idea my husband and I had for an inside-the-church joke. They were considering using the disco theme from 'Star Wars' as a recessional, and we thought it would be too cool to have the people sitting on the aisle stand up and create a gauntlet of light sabers for them to walk under. We didn't do it, but the story was a good one.)'

Carrie Leonard (carrie@kestrel.umd.edu) wrote: 'Another option often cited on alt.wedding is a balloon release. A balloon release has severe environmental consequences that are not obvious. One of the leading causes of death of two endangered sea turtle species is mistaking floating latex balloons for jellyfish and eating them by mistake, blocking off their intestines, and dying. Also, while balloons may not litter the immediate area near your reception, they do land somewhere and will end up littering someone else's backyard. I do not recommend a balloon release.'

Although not everyone who falls for the butterfly release hype is Bridezilla, it *is* almost the perfect Bridezilla send-off.' (end quote by Wende Feller).

Rick (rbucha7924@aol.com), a vendor, writes: 'I don't feed my plumber. I don't feed my electrician. They are contractors who come to me to perform a job. I feel the same way about photographers, musicians, videographers, etc.'

Andrea (tryntohyde@hotmail.com) says: 'My thought is that they know their jobs, let them eat when they want to, as long as nothing is compromised in the process. And if they do decide to eat at the wrong time, they will most likely not be offended if they are asked to do something, eg. take a photo or whatever. If they are, you probably shouldhave hired someone more personable.'

Tasha (tashaa@sfpl.lib.ca.us): answers: 'If it's not made clear to me to provide a meal, then I shouldn't have to. My photographer did not say anything to me, and it was NOT in the contract. The DJ did not say anything to me either, although I did ask, because someone else is paying for the DJ. His response was: that would be nice. Still doesn't say much to me. I go to work everyday, and I either bring my lunch or buy lunch. My work doesn't provide lunch.'

Steve Kimbell (Skimbell@erols.com) says: 'In many places, paricularly the larger hotels, (or at least in this area) caterers and hotel management have an 'employee meal' that they also provide for vendors. Indeed, if the meal is a buffet style the vendors are usually allowed to partake once everyone else has gone through.

'However, if the meal is a sit down, sandwiches are often provided as caterers usually want to charge full price for additional dinners... to me that's not right. I don't have a problem with bringing my own meal as long as I know in advance so I don't have to LEAVE to get something to eat.

'[This] is an area that many couples planning their wedding might not think about, but should certainly be aware of before interviewing prospective candidates. Obviously there are a number of differing opinions, but the important point to make clear is that you should ASK YOUR VENDOR (DJ, Band, Wedding Coordinator, Videographer, or Photographer) whether a meal is expected and what alternatives there may be. I would definitely stress the importance of keeping your vendors on-site as opposed to having them go out to get something... you don't have to worry if they'll make it back.'

Conversely, some alt.wedding participants have had less than good results. Some guests have assumed the cameras were 'favors' and simply took them home. Some have had relatives who intended to get the film developed... but didn't. And some people have counted on their guests to snap good candids at the reception thereby eliminating the expense of a professional photographer only to be greatly disappointed.

And a recent twist to the disposable camera discussion includes the question: 'Is is proper to ask the guests to take your reception photos?' MissManners, an American etiquette expert, thinks this practice is 'appalling' and is akin to leaving eggs and butter on the tables and expecting guests to bake their own cake. She says that guests are not there to provide a service but to enjoy the festivities without such an obligation.

They will *not* do anything about your individual situation, but you may help them decide to take action against the whole group of bridal- shop scammers.' For more details (including the legal text from the FTC) please see the alt.wedding home page (old info snipped - will try to update).

As far as glasses not being romantic or elegant -- pshaw! All brides are romantic and elegant on their wedding day -- glasses or no! If they're part of your daily wear, people who know you will have a hard time recognizing you without them. Glasses can be a very elegant accessory, but for many people they're as much a part of their face (and their personality) as their eye-color, their hairstyle, etc.'

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