OLD CARS WEEKLY INTERVIEW
Dear Ken, I met a fellow [must have been Richard Penaluna]
last weekend at a car show who displayed a 1919 Scripps-Booth touring car.
I plan to write an article about it for my editor at OLD CARS WEEKLY in Iola,
Wisconsin. Anyway the car owner gave me your address and showed me a copy
of the S-B Register.
I would like to include in my article some information
about you, how you got involved with the Register, and perhaps a few comments
about the helpfulness of this “list”, maybe a few examples of how collectors
have found cars/parts they needed through your efforts with the Register.
I will include information in my article how readers
can obtain copies of the Register – how would you like me to do this?
I have found the Register and quite a bit of information
on the Internet about S-B cars. So I will include that re-source also.
May I mention the museums listed in the Register where
Scripps-Booth cars are currently on display?
I look forward to hearing from you ASAP, and will send
you a copy of my article after it appears in OCW.
Sincerely, Marian Dinwiddie –August 31, 2000
OCW INTERVIEW RESPONSES
Dear Marian, Thank you for your letter concerning your
future OCW article on Scripps-Booth.
The Scripps-Booth Register was purposed by Ledyard
H. Pfund in fall of 1981, with issue Number 1 mailed out in January 1982
with 15 known cars. T. Scripps Downing took over with Register Number 3
in March 1991 after Ledge death. Both these gentlemen completely restored
and were owners of 1916 Model C Roadsters. I was given all of Mr. Downing’s
extensive files by his wife after Scripps death and put out Register Number
9 in July 1996. At that time the Register had grown to a 10-page newslet-ter
with 40 known cars. For the last three years, the Register has been printed
on an annual basic in December and runs 6-8 pages. Currently there
are 54 known cars, and the Register is sent out to 45 owners. There are
owners in Australia, Canada, Chile, New Zealand, and Norway.
The Register is sent out free to current Scripps-Booth
owners and also to the AACA and NAHC Libraries and the Cranbrook Archives.
Register Number 9-12 can also be found on my Scripps-Booth web site which
can be found with most search engines. It is plan to add Register Number
1-8 in the future on this web site. To respect owner’s privacy, only the names
and web pages of muse-ums that have Scripps-Booths are listed on the car
Register. However, both the Car No. and engine serial number, if known, is
reported. The Internet has been the biggest help recently in finding new owners
for the Register.
While I don’t own a Scripps-Booth, I have been inter-ested
in the Scripps-Booth company and its cars since first reading about them
in the mid 60’s. I bought my first old car at age 18 in 1962, a 1927 Chevrolet
Coupe, and shortly joined the VCCA (Vintage Chevrolet Club of America) and
read about Scripps-Booth in the club maga-zine, the Generator & Distributor.
The 1915-18 Scripps-Booth are recognized by the VCCA in its Forerunner Class,
since Chevrolet owned Scripps-Booth in 1917-18 before transferring the company
to General Motors in August 1918.
So for the last 35 years, I have been looking to buy
my Scripps-Booth dream car, a 1917-18 Model G Roadster that has the well
engineered Mason/Chevrolet built engine and transmission combination. I almost
bought a Model G in the early 70’s in Pennsylvania, but bought a 1970 Corvette
Roadster instead. During the last twenty years my interest has shifted away
from the later 1925-28 Chev 4’s (had and sold 6) to the pre 1919 Veteran
Chevrolets and since 1985 have been the VCCA Technical Advisor for the Whiting,
Little, Monroe, and pre-GM Scripps-Booths. I corresponded with both Ledge
and Scripps before they died on Scripps-Booth matters, often swapping copies
of literature and other information. I currently own two restored Veteran
Chevrolets, a 1912 Model Little 4 Run-about and a 1918 Model D5 “Eight” Touring.
I also maintain car and owner Registers for these Little and D models. I
think the Model G Scripps-Booth would make the perfect car to drive for the
VCCA Annual Chev 4 Tour the last week in June each year.
Yes, you may mention the museums that displays Scripps-Booth,
but be sure the Detroit Historical Museum gets credit for owning the 1912
Biautogo and 1914 Rocket that is loan to the Owls Head Museum.
Yes, while I don’t receive a lot of feedback from own-ers
on buying parts found in the newsletter, there has been some that I have
printed. The most recent success story, is non-owner Tom Booth, James Scripps
Booth grandson, acquired this summer a 1916 Model C Roadster from an owner
in New York. Tom also had been looking for the right car for many years.
Enclosed is the last Register Number 12 which gives
you some idea of the “news” I report on. You can use anything except the
owners’ names and address from the last page.
Thank you for your interest. Regards, Ken
ODDBALL CARS ADD SPICE TO CONCOURS, DETROIT NEWS By Richard
A. Wright-August 11, 1999
One of the joys of the Meadow Brook Hall Concours d'Elegance,
aside from the great featured classics such as Packard and Bugatti, is seeing
unusual, very rare and even oddball cars you would probably not see at most
shows.
An engaging eccentricity marked the automobiles built
by James Scripps-Booth, of the family that founded The Detroit News, the
Scripps-Howard newspaper chain and the Booth Newspapers chain. A 1919 Scripps-Booth
was displayed by Maggie and Bob Allesee, of Bloomfield Hills.
Scripps-Booth's first effort, the 1913 Bi-Autogo, was
a strange machine, basically a body with wheels front and rear and two on
the side which retracted after the car picked up speed. It was featured in
Ripley's "Believe It or Not." It was powered by the first V-8 engine built
in Detroit.
Scripps-Booths were produced from 1913 to 1922, although
Scripps-Booth resigned from the company in 1916 after it was acquired by
William Durant and merged into Chevrolet, which later became part of General
Motors. GM phased out the Scripps-Booth in 1922.
1919(?) SCRIPPS-BOOTH IN AUSTRALIA
Hi, my name is Jon Higlett from Sydney, Australia.
I was speaking to my father last weekend about cars and the Internet (as
you do) and I spoke to him about the old car we used to have in our back
yard for many years. It was a Scripps-Booth 1919-1920 (I think). I told
him how easy it was to search for things on the Internet and I told him
I would search for anything on Scripps-Booth - hence this correspondence.
I regularly search for veteran and vintage car info. as I am an old car
'nut'.
We have a couple of regular car meets in Australia
that attracts thousands of special interest cars, but I have yet to see
another S-B.
Reading through your newsletter, I realized how rare
these vehicles are. I have photos of Dad's old car, just as he was giving
it away, back in the 70's. I was devastated, as I saw it as 'mine' and I
wanted some day to restore it - maybe I would still be doing so, given it's
rarity.
I would really be interested to know if this vehicle
has been restored, but from the info. I've read in your news-letter, it
doesn't seem to appear that way. It had a six cylinder engine and a flat
radiator, wooden spoked wheels and solid tyres (I remember, because I started
restoring it by removing one of the wheels and sanding back the spokes -
I also removed the tyre). It had no body, just the bonnet and the firewall,
instrument panel and the base for the windscreen. It was given to my dad
by Ben Bronk - who had a magnificent collection of cars and a museum in
Watsons Bay in Sydney. Sadly, he passed away a number of years ago.
When my Dad gave it away, I kept some bits. The speedo,
ammeter, oil pressure guage, the badge from the radiator, and the radiator
cap, which has the twin 'bones' plus a very proud looking eagle on it (about
120 mm high with wings outstretched). I will have the photos I have scanned
and send them to you, if you are interested, I can also take photos of the
'bits' I have at home. My Dad also remembers whom he gave it to - somewhere
in the bush, Forbes or Parkes, I believe. I will confirm this for you too.
I would also be very interested to see photos of similar
models. The web sites I can find seem to only have photos of the vee-radiator
models - which I didn't even know existed until a couple of days ago.
I will forward the info when I can - soon, I hope -
in digital format for your records (Sorry, I don't have engine Nos., VINs
etc).
Looking forward to the next yearly report. Cheers,
Jon Higlett -February 8, 2001 Email:
higjon@northsydney.nsw.gov.au
STERLING ENGINE IN NEW ZEALAND
It just so happened that my dad, who's owned a 1928
Ford Model A since 1962, used to scrounge around the farms of rural New Zealand
pulling stuff out of macro-carpa hedges and squirreling it away in his basement
to use as swaps for Model A stuff. Things like an engine for a four-cylinder
FN motorcycle (fabrique en Belgium), crankcases for a 1914 Premier (a marquee
only ever produced for three years), and lots of car stuff that I could
never recognize. Most of it he sold off during a family financial crisis
in 1976, but in later years he still had a Scripps Booth engine as fitted
to a rare Model-T-lookalike American car called a Harvard.
Urged on by my mother, who was forever barking her
shins on it every time she squeezed through the basement door, he allowed
me to advertise this engine in New Zealand's own classic car magazine "Beaded
Wheels". A pair of gentlemen from Horowhenua duly materialized at my back
door one evening to announce that they owned and were in the process of rebuilding
one of only three Harvard cars still extant in New Zealand.
When you're dealing in stuff as rare as engines for
Harvard motorcars, the negotiations can go one of two possible ways. Either
the purchaser is so desperate to have your engine, because it's so rare,
that they'll pay any price for it. Or they point out that the market for
such engines is incredibly tiny, by virtue of these cars' very rarity, that
in fact it’s a buyers' market and really I should just give them the motor
and be thankful they don’t charge me cartage to take it away.
Naturally these two Harvard fanciers adopted the latter negotiating strategy.
But I neatly circumvented the sordid business of trying to put a cash price
on a 1917 Scripps Booth motor by telling them they had to go straight back
out into the darkness and find me an Ariel motorcycle frame, regardless of
cost.
Two weeks later they arrived at my back doorstep with
a 1937 Ariel rigid frame.
Who got ripped off here, them or me? I'll let you be
the judge. I was happy, anyway. I'd got my Ariel frame and besides, there's
not a lot of call for Scripps Booth motors in our household.
THE HARVARD CONNECTION
I found this above interesting tale on the Internet
but loss the web page or whom the author was to give credit.
The 1915-20 Harvard was a light car built in New York
with RHD steering for export primarily to New Zealand. It used the same OHV
120 CID Sterling engine as used by Scripps-Booth with the same engine serial
number sequence. The other companies that also used this Sterling engine
includes Monroe, Sterling-New York, Cornelian, Fostoria, and Stewart Truck.
CLUTCH THROW-OUT BEARING ADJUSTMENT
My 1916 Model C has been running fine and I have been
driving it around town. Last Saturday the clutch stopped working and I could
not shift gears. I was able to shift into first gear with the engine off,
and then I started the car and drove home. I got lucky on the traffic lights
because I did not stop until I got home. By then the car would not start
again. .
When I examined the clutch it looked like everything
was OK except the throw out bearing was unscrewed from the back of the clutch
plate hub. It screws in easily enough but I cannot see what keeps it in place.
Is there a clamp missing from the shaft or is there some other way to keep
the bearing in place? I do not have any drawings that show the clutch
construction.
I am hoping to get the car back on the road in time
for the Woodward Dream Cruise that takes place on August 18. This is
the biggest old car event in the area. Any help provided would
be welcome. Tom Booth - August 7, 2001
Hello Ken, Thanks for the information. For some
reason, the illustrations did not come through the email and cannot be displayed.
I am glad the illustration I sent could not be opened because I realized
later that the throw-out bearing would not work at all with a clamp where
I showed it.
Lock wire? I did see a small hole on the rear
face of the bearing race. That must align with a hole in the clutch
hub. I can not think of any other place for a lock wire. I will
take a look again tonight. Thanks again, Tom
Hi Tom, I now have attached the two clutch images as
.jpg files that might be easier for you to open. There is not much on the
lock wire except there appears two different sizes listed - with the smaller
size used to fasten the bearing. Ken
Hello Ken, Thanks for the illustrations. The throw
out bearing on my car seems to match the drawing but I cannot find a place
for the lock wire. Maybe I could if it was out on the bench but I
am trying to do it in the car. I tightened the bearing by hand and took
it for a ride today. I probably shifted 100 times and then checked the bearing
when I got home. It had loosened about one full turn. I think I will try
Lock Tite next. Best regards, Tom
Thanks for update Tom. Could be the replacement bearing
that is in your car never was drilled for the lock wire either? Ken
I HAVE THIS CAR IN MY YARD
Hi, my name is Shelley Facey. I have had this car in
my yard since I don't know how long! Anyway I have been trying to find out
what it is? So the only numbers I could find on it were; on the frame by
the back passenger side, oval metal plate that reads, Oakland Motor Car Co.,
Pontiac Mich. USA, Model 34-B, Car No. 37530?4, and under the passenger seat
a plate that reads; All Steel Body with Pat. # from 1915-1917. On the steering
box; Jackson-Church Wilcox Co., Saginaw, Mich. USA, Pat # ch 17 1903. On
the front axle; 190776-WMC6125 KA-B7. That’s all the number I could find
on it. If you could help me find out what it is or someone who could? I would
really appreciate it. Thank you, Shelley August 03, 2001
Email: gripps@sisqtel.net
Hi Shelley, Car No. 3753034 indicates this is a 1918-9
Oakland Model 34-B Sedan. The last two numbers [34] stand for the Model 34
which was built by Oakland be-tween 1916 and 1922 with the [-B] models coming
out for 1918-9 starting at 3000134 to 11644034, Does this car have an engine?
It should be an OHV Six cylinder built by Northway – another GM division.
It should start at C-1000. Regards Ken
No, there is no motor, and no front axle. It has been
sitting for I don't know how long? There have been people wanting to
buy it? I have no idea what it is worth? Or if it is worth anything?
Do you know where I could find out? Thank you so much for the
help. Shelley
Does it have a complete body or is this just a chassis?
It must have a front axle because you listed the WMC Weston Mott Co model
number - do you mean rear axle. Does it have a transmission and wood or wire
wheels? To give you and idea of valve - I sold a 1926 and a 1928 chassis
complete with engine and wheels for $750 each - the 26 going up to Washington
State and the 28 going to Arizona - a few years ago. Ken
Hi Ken, it's me again, sorry, it does have a front
axle! It's the rear one we don't have. Its body is complete, except for
the hood and front grill, no trany, engine and only 2 tires (wire)! The
body is in good shape just a little rusty; it's a 4-door.
What kind of trany did it have in it? I think we have
the rear axle laying around here I just am not sure what kind? There
is so many old cars & parts here I probably have all the parts but for
now that’s all the car has on it. Thanks again, Shelley
Hi Shelly, the transmission is a 3-speed that might
be still attached to the engine somewhere? You should be able to recognize
the rear axle since it would have match-ing wheel hubs [and the wire wheels?]
to those of the front axle. Do the front hubcaps indicate the wheel manufac-ture?
Like Houk or Wire Wheel Corp of America? Does this car have a spare wheel
carrier for the spare wire wheel? If you have a set [5] of good wire wheels,
hubs, spare tire carrier, and hub caps – this Houk wire wheel set might be
worth more [around $2000] that the rest of this Oakland. To give you some
idea of value, I sold a 1928 Chevrolet Coach 2 door that was complete with
a rust free body but need new wood and a full restoration a few years ago
for $1500. Hopes this helps - Ken
1922 SCRIPPS BOOTH DaVINCI NEW OWNER
I recently purchased the daVinci from the Northwood
Institute. I would like to join your club, my contact info is below and I
have a website at
http://www.4stargallery.com/mycaraddiction at which there is the
beginnings of a page on the car.
Thanks, Shawn Miller, Indianapolis, IN
smiller@searchforceinc.com
INQUIRE FROM BRENDON IN NZ
Hi Ken, Just wondering if you would mind sending me
another copy of the four cylinder Scripps booth steering box information.
You sent me some details quite some time ago from a parts book. I printed
it off but have mis-placed it, and my computer has had a virus in it so I
have no records. Have just purchased a steering box and am keen to see if
it is the correct one .Are you still planning to come to New Zealand? Also
do you have any information that would help me to identify a Scripps Booth
cycle car chassis? Were they made out of steel tube?
Regards, Brendon Fox - November 23, 2001
Hi Brendon - yes I lost most of my email correspon-dence
and addressees when my old computer took a dump this pass summer. The good
news is I bought a 1918 Model G roadster several months ago. I will be telling
more about it in the newsletter next month.
The steering gear is made by Jackson, Church, and Wilcox
Company, Saginaw, Mich. with its name cast into the gearbox housing. This
company was owned by Buick at that time but was taken over by GM about the
time it took over S-B. Here is the Model G parts illustration:
I will be going to Australia next year for 2 weeks
the first of October 2002, but not sure about NZ? Both my daughters are
getting married next years - 23 yr. old in January and the 28 year old in
late October - so Dad will have his share of expenses next year, and I am
also short on vacation time. In any respect, I plan to make the trip to
Australia about every 2 years from now on - so maybe NZ in three years?
Regards, Ken
Hi Ken, Congratulations on the purchase of your Scripps!
And the engagements of your daughters. When you do manage to get to NZ you
are welcome to stay at our house. We live one and a half hours drive from
Wel-lington, and half hour drive from Southwards car museum which is said
to be the largest vintage car museum in the southern hemisphere, (no Scripps-Booths
though). The steering info you sent me confirmed that the steering box I
am purchasing is the correct one. Will have to try to find a bracket for mounting
it to the chassis one day.
I have managed to purchase a diff and a good front mudguard
for my four cylinder Scripps project. Have not got my 1921 Scripps road legal
yet, but have purchased another car, a 1927 Oakland tourer complete and
reasona-bly tidy. Will be excellent for the longer car tours.
I recently saw a chassis made of steel pipe, it looked
very veteran, was about one meter wide by approx. three meters long. Do you
think it could be possible that it is a Scripps rocket car chassis? I might
see if I could track it down and if the price is reasonable, buy it. It
would be a challenge to find out what it is and then try to piece together
the rest of the car. They tell me you don't have to be mad but it helps.
Regards Brendon Fox
Brendon - only thing I can find of the cyclecar chassis
is it had an only a 36 inch tread and wheelbase was 100 inches. The S-B was
the high-class cyclecar of its day and would think it had a normal steel
frame. It was called an underslung chassis.
By the way my model G engine serial # found on flywheel
is SB1822. The SB prefix identifies this engine as built by Chevrolet for
S-B. For some reason [a mis-take?} the #407 cylinder head is stamped SB1722
on the exhaust port.
Thanks for the invite to your home, Regards, Ken
CROW ELK-HART OR ‘13 OAKLAND RADIATOR
We have unearthed a V shaped nickel radiator, which
we think, belongs to a Crow-Elkhart vehicle. It is square honeycomb core,
made by Mayo Radiator Company 1911. The radiator has two lower water outlets
and one top outlet. As far as we know the square holed honeycomb core was
deleted in 1912 and replaced by hexangled core. The car radiator turned up
in Tauranga, New Zealand. We are also told that it might be a 1913 Oakland
range.
These are the Photo's of the Radiator. As you can see,
the emblem is of a round shape. The Oakland had an oval emblem. The car is
a Crow-Elkhart; the radiator is very much alike, which is why we think it's
a Crow-Elkhart. We have brought a Medal Detector, found nails, corrugated
iron, gate hinge, underground cables, etc. But no signs of any other parts
of a car.
Thank you, Dave Perry & Sandie Cooper Sept 2, 2001
dovevalley@xtra.co.nz
FOUND A S-B MODEL D RADIATOR
Yes, Dave and Sandie – Laverne Burt is correct. The
radiator with its two-bottom outlet is for the 1916-18 Scripps Booth Model
D 4 passenger Roadster or Model H Touring car that was powered by the single
casting block FERRO V-8 engine. Laverne sold his S-B vee’d radiator [Mayo
Manufacturing Co., New Haven, Conn. Serial #121058] on eBay several years
ago to a Model T speed-ster guy [measures 21” wide, 24” high, and about 9”
deep is the same dimensions as my 1918 Model G Roadster which used the Chev
4 engine and transmission]. The Scripps-Booth emblem was round (about
1 ¾” diameter).
PHOTOGRAPH OF A CE-33 CLOVER LEAF
The car in the photo is very interesting because it is a
1917 CROW ELK-HART CE-33 Clover leaf 3 pass Roadster with the extra cost
Houk 25 ”Quick-Detachable” Wire Wheels on #4 hubs and 32”x3 ½” Clincher
tires. That cost only $845 including the spare wire wheel. This CE-33 was
almost a direct copy of the Scripps-Booth styling that was used from 1915
to 1919 on its Model C, G, D and H’s, except the CE-33 used only the 3 small
rear hood louvers and supported the head lights on vertical posts off the
frame, while S-B attached the head lights to a fender mounted bracket. Scripps-Booth
had no connec-tions to the CE-33 and thought about a lawsuit against the
CE Company. I have never seen or even heard of a CE-33 or one that still
exist? Is their one today in NZ?
Regards, Ken
FEEDBACK FROM NEW ZEALAND
Hi Ken, we have just found your website, it is fantastic,
everything we wanted to know is there. Our measurements are 20" wide, 24"
high, 8" deep, not counting hose spigots. Emblem is round and right diameter.
The photo of the car with silver radiator is identical to ours. Now we know
what it is, what do we do with the radiator? The radiator had a bit of chassis
attached to it, so the car must be here some-where. We are on a farm in the
Kaimai Range of Tauranga NZ, there is a State highway in front of the house,
the car could be under the road. We found a 4 Cylinder Reo Motor in the
river. Can we keep in touch if, when we find more of the car, or it's history?
Thanks for your time and effort. Much appreciated. Dave & Sandie – November
5, 2001
Hi Ken, thank you very much for all the help you have
given us. Today we have found a Scripps Booth car in Palmerston North, &
1 in Auckland. We are going to contact them tonight, so we can make
arrangements to visit the car and bring our radiator. We will try & get
chassis & model numbers for you.
Anything else you need from NZ please get in touch,
we will be your legs in NZ. Hope to meet you when you visit NZ. All the best.
Dave & Sandie
Hi Dave and Sandie. Do you have any Veteran car or
old cars now? From my web site you an see I am into the Veteran Chevrolet
and got interested in Scripps-Booths because Chevrolet took over the company
during the 1916-18 period and then turned it over to General Motors in later
1918. My 1918 Model G has the 1918 Chev 4 engine and transmission. I also
have a 1912 Little Four runabout and a 1918 Chev Model D5 Touring that has
the first OHV Chev V8 engine. We know they sold the Little 4 in Australia
from old registration records and there is one in Queensland and one in Victoria.
I don't know if any Little 4's were sold in NZ, but
we know they were exported into England and South Africa where there is also
one today.
Keep in touch, Ken
We are reporting in. No we don't have any vintage cars
ourselves. Just the radiator. Being a mechanic for the last 30 years,
I'm interested in vintage cars it goes with my age VINTAGE.
We have been in touch with the NZ Vintage Car Soci-ety
Head Office - Christchurch.
Regarding your request for information on Chevy's & Scripps Booth.
Scripps Booth, only 1 being on record, Mr. Power whom you have mentioned
in your newsletters, we have spoken to him, his is an 6 cylinder which we
will get the numbers for you.
Chevy's arrived in NZ around 1915. Due to relocation
of the head office for NZ Vintage Car Society. We can not get any
information for about a fortnight. The secre-tary said there is a
large list of pre 1920 Chev's recorded. She needs to get in touch
with the owners for their permis-sion to divulge information. Could you
also attach a letter to the NZ Vintage Car Society requesting your needs
regarding pre 1920 vehicles in NZ? We will then post the letter to
NZ Vintage Car Society. Yours, Dave & Sandie
Hi Dave & Sandie, thanks for your last message
- I know several of several Veteran Chevrolets in NZ already, since some
are members of the Vintage Chevrolet Club of America [VCCA] which I have
been a member since 1963. I presume you live near Christchurch where Brian
Newbery is restoring the oldest Chev in NZ - a 1914 Royal Mail roadster
he imported from New York a few years ago. Brian also has a 1615-6 Baby
Grand that was sold new in NZ in 1915.
Thanks for your interest in these Veteran cars, Ken
WHO WAS DOROTHY VANDERGRIFT?
We are restoring a 1918 Scripps-Booth for a customer,
the engine number is Northway DM63316. Our customer was told
that Dorothy Vandergrift had owned this car. We are trying to track
down some answers concerning this car. If you could help, we would
really appreciate it.
Thanks, Robin - November 19, 2001
Westmoreland Studebaker
RD4, Box 444
Blairsville, PA 15717
cpiper@stargate.net
WHAT IS NORTHWAY ENGINE #DM63316?
Hi Robin, I don't recognize this car and don't think
it was ever listed on the S-B Register? Does this car have a V-Type radiator
as used on the 1918-19 Six models or does it have a flat-faced radiator as
used on the 1920-1 Model B's? Note that the Northway Six engine used in
the 1918-9 models have a "C" prefix while the Model B for 1920-1 had the
BD prefix. The 1920 Oakland version of this Northway engine used the "D"
prefix with several known Oakland’s export models in England and NZ have
the "DM" prefix with my understanding the M prefix have a magneto. How can
I help?
I am more familiar with the pre '19 Veteran roadster
models then the later 6 cylinder models you are working on. I have a 1918
Model G roadster that has the Chevrolet built engine and transmission.
Would like to learn more about the car you are working
on - like what body style is it? Any other numbers you found on body or chassis?
Regards, Ken
HOUK WHEEL HUB NUTS EMBLEM?
Hello Ken, Question about the Houk wheel hubs and Scripps-Booth
caps. My car has a Scripps-Booth cap on the spare tire only. The other four
are Houk caps. What is the standard? Should I try to get four caps with the
S-B emblem? I found one man who has a single cap with the S-B emblem and
he would like to trade for one of my Houk caps but I don't want to do that
if it is the wrong for this car. Best regards, Tom Booth – October 23, 2001
Hi Tom, Scripps Downing gave me a S-B hub nut emblem
off his original S-B hub nut, since he told me he purchase 5 new reproduction
S-B hub emblems from the Williams Co. in New England [address in last newsletter
I think?]. The Williams company had/has both the Houk emblems and the S-B
emblems, which are attached by two little rivets. I would say the Houk emblems
were used on hub nuts that the car logo wasn't available.
I finally got the Mason engine started this past weekend
in my new 1918 Model G and seems to run fairly well. I had the car up on
jack stands with the wheels off, and put it in all 3 gears with no noises
in the trans or rear end. It appears the radiator core and tanks have been
replaced at one time and there are no coolant leaks so far. Ken
MORE ON HOUK WHEEL HUB NUT EMBLEMS?
Tom, looking in my files, I found a letter dated January
3, 1953, written by your grandfather, James Scripps Booth, replying to the
same name plate question to a man who was restoring a 1916 Model D, in which
he hand wrote: “Hub caps carried the Houk name plate – not S-B.”
Now the S-B emblem I have, which Scripps Downing told
me the colors were incorrect because somebody hand painted them, shows a
black background on the outer ring that has the Houk wording. The next ring
is painted gray, with the next ring that has Scripps-Booth Detroit painted
white with the bird white also. The large letters S and B are red with inside
the circle blue.
I have seen what I think appear to be original Houk
#4 caps with the S-B emblem brass with an all black back-ground like the
Houk emblems are, but also have seen a few where the background is black
with the large S and B letters are filled in red. So I not sure what is more
correct for a Model C or D? All five emblems are missing off my #4 hubcaps
for my 1918 Model G, but by then I think the Houk name was changed to the
Wire Wheel Corp of America. Regards, Ken
KEITH A. SCRIPPS ADDED AS AN NON-OWNER
We want to welcome another Scripps family member to
our select group, Keith Armiger Scripps, who is now living in Washington
D.C. Read below how the Internet helped this along.
Ken--Since I am keeping the Scripps-Booth AQ book and
our dealings with it a surprise UNTIL AFTER Keith's birthday, November 20th,
I will give you the information I definitely know about now. After this birthday,
I will e-mail "introduce" you both and he can tell you more details PLUS
a lot of interesting "tales" re himself and his family.
This is what I can share with you today regarding my
best friend, Keith Armiger Scripps, and his family: KEITH'S --- Great grandfather:
James Edmond Scripps: 1835 – 1906 Grandfather: William Edmund Scripps: 1882
– 1952 brother to Ellen Scripps (who married George G. Booth, and was mother
of James Scripps Booth) Ellen Scripps's money enabled George Booth and herself
to finance their very talented son, James' Scripps-Booth involvement in his
auto-building endeavor. Her Scripps money also assisted her and George Booth's
talents and interest in building the Cranbrook School in Bloomfield Hills,
Michigan, contiguous to the city of Birmingham, Michigan (my former hometown).
My son attended Cran-brook School.
A bit of history: Keith's great grandfather, James
Edmond Scripps contributed his own art collection and funds to help found
the Detroit Institute of Arts (much as the Mellon family did for the National
Gallery in Wash-ington). Who knows, you might want to interview Keith for
your newsletter and/or another publication. I will help you get more details.
Keith is an inventor and is interested much like his
great grandfather James Edmond and his cousin (twice-removed) James Scripps-Booth
in engineering. He knows ALL of the Scripps family history, told and untold!
Thanks again for your enabling me to get the SB-AQ
book. Keith will really be very pleased to receive it. Thanks so much for
your help.
Regards, Richard Stoltz – October 26, 2001
Jrichardstoltz@aol.com
Ken: my friend Keith Scripps received the Automobile
Quarterly book from me on his birthday, Nov. 20th. Also, I had five pictures
reproduced, then framed and hung in a room at his home as another surprise.
Now many of his friends can see them, and view the book as well. Lots of
great picture/articles (Packard, hood ornaments etc) that make this issue
a special item. Ken - Thank you again. You helped me get the AQ. Also, we
both enjoy reading your newsletter. Let me know when his yearly subscription
ends. Both items (AQ & newsletter) made for a happy birthday and a special
Thanksgiving.
Keith's grandfather was William Edmund Scripps (1882-1952);
his father was William John Scripps (1905-1960). They lived in Detroit &
Grosse Pointe. My friend: Keith Armiger Scripps (1932 -). Keith is a GREAT
source of info on Detroit's auto barons and their families. He really should
write an "Auto Memoirs" article. I am trying to get him to do it. He needs
a good writer to work with him. Know anyone?
Thanks again, Ken. Regards, Richard
INFORMATION WANTED ON A SCRIPPS-BOOTH
I am interested in any information you have to offer
about a Scripps-Booth listed in your Register. It has engine number C45382.
I am extremely sure (90%) that this was my grandfather's car. His name was
Charles Kirby and in this car's notes it lists the name Kirby. I am most
interested in:
1. Where the car is currently.
2. Who is the current owner of the car?
If this is the same car then I can offer you more infor-mation
about it.
For starters I believe his car to be a 1918 model and
I might be able to get the VIN number for your site given enough time. I
can also give you more information on its history if you are interested.
Sincerely, Trevor Bihl - December 11, 2001
tbihl@mindspring.com
Hi Trevor, your grandfather Kirby’s S-B touring car
is now in the collection of Vintage Auto in Fort Mill, SC.
Yes - interested - this car came from the Barney Pollard
collection in Detroit before you grandfather got it. Would be both interested
in VIN # and the 34-S chassis # on frame at right rear well? S-B reported
that the last car built by Dec 31, 1918 was VIN #11599. But the 1919 model
year started in August 1918 somewhere around VIN #10,000 so it could be that
only VIN# 9001 to 9999 built between Jan 1918 and July 1918 should be considered
true 1918 models. If you have documentation as to what month the Kirby car
was built? I sure would be interested. Re-gards, Ken
SCRIPPS-BOOTH WITH A “T” COUPE BODY?
Dear Ken, I saw the Scripps-Booth Register listed in
Old Cars and am writing to ask you or possibly any of your members can help
me. I m interested in early Model T Coupes 1909-1910, and I understand that
there was a man (now passed away) by the name of Webster Knight in Rhode
Island who had a 1909 Model T Coupe mounted on a Scripps-Booth chassis. I’m
wondering if anyone knows anything about this car, where he obtained the
T body, and if anyone has photos of this car? I would also be interested
in knowing something about Mr. Knight? Perhaps he was in your club one time
or was at least listed as a Scripps-Booth owner?
Could you also send me a photo of a Scripps-Booth and
a brief history of the company? I heard of the car but know nothing about
them. Thank you and hoping to hear from you soon, Sincerely, Don Watson,
Grover Beach, CA
From a quick Internet search I found that a Webster
Knight II was an early member of the VMCCA and died in Providence RI in Oct
1967 at the age of 74. Does anybody remember his early T Coupe?
FEEDBACK TO REGISTER NO. 13
Dear Ken, we enjoyed your last Scripps-Booth Register
No. 13. And you referred to our Harrah’s “C” model three-seat roadster. Thought
you would like part of an article out of one of the Books on the Harrah’s
car. Enclosed you will find pictures of the car as we received it from Harrah’s
auction. The black car with green wheels, the orange under-carriage and
the green motor. I also enclosed pic-tures of the new car after 14½
year’s restoration. The motor is now blue. The wheels are powder coated grey.
The body is Metallic Maroon with the fenders black and pin stripped and
the under-carriage is black/ Everything has been done to rebuilding the
engine and every part around it including the radiator, gas tank, brakes
back to original cables. It runs great and won many prizes in Concourse shows.
You will find pictures of the new exterior, the motor and the radiator, the
interior seats, the carburetor, the starter, and the dash, which is all-original.
Have a great Holiday Season and our best to all. Sincerely
and smooth riding,
Bud & Grace Pope – December 11, 2000
I received a nice note of encouragement from Forrest
Wilkerson. He sent me a nice photo of his gray painted 1916 Model C as it
is displayed in his collection. If you get a chance Forrest, check and confirm
your Model C Car No. and engine serial number. Also check your Six Tour-ing
for the 34-S prefix chassis number?
I also received and update from Glenn Wieties con-cerning
his 1918 Coupe. Glen corrected the engine serial number as C35541 with the
#24538-6W being the block casting number. This Model 42 Coupe has at sometime
in its life been converted from a 4-passenger coupe to only a three-passenger
coupe, since there is only one seat to the rear on the right side. In back
of the driver seat on the left rear side is a built in storage compartment.
This car also has the later 1920-21 B motel radiator. Please confirm your
frame is missing its chassis plate that gives the prefix 34-S chassis serial
number?
AKSEL COMMENTS TO REGISTER NO. 13
Dear Ken, I would like to thank you for your daughters engagement,
and will hereby try to answer some of your questions asked earlier. [See
Register No. 12 & 13]
Concerning registration numbers: In 1916 authorities
started numbering license plates for private cars with no. 700, hereby 13
April 1916, my car A 759. This license plate did not follow the car or owner
when ownership did change, but were taken back and given to the next car
for registration. Therefore at random the D model licensed a year later did
get A758. In 1920 they changed system and the number did follow the
car until 1 April 1971. The king of Norway had no. A 1 on each car until
1971. After 1971 the plates follow the car during change of ownership until
recycle time.
Concerning undated [1915] Instruction Book: In my e-mail
I did describe book as a 12-page book. Correctly it is a 24 pages (copy on
12 sheets).
Concerning motor: I did receive information from you
and Alan Schier concerning details 11 February 2000, including tips of a
Sterling engine #3005 for sale. By the time I did receive information I had
already bought two Chevy 490 engines, and delivered this for rebuilding.
The motor was delivered for restoration during the wintertime and should
be installed this summer. Unfortunately there were some problems which now
hopefully has been solved.
Concerning Hub Cups: The four-hub cup [logo plates]
was all missing and now has been replaced with duplicates of the originals.
I did try to contact Pulfer & Willaims but they did not have any left.
The spare wheel still has an original hub cup with the Norwegian car dealer’s
name impressed.
Concerning my C Model: As you might see from
photo my car may have some incorrect details, but this is not my main concern,
and I will be redone during time.
Instruments: Recently I have collected correct
instruments which will be installed in dashboard.
Upholstery: I have received detail photographs
which describes the coach trimming, seat arrangement, and further more access
to the luggage room behind the drivers seat. Seat arrangement will probably
be as is until everything else is authentic.
Luggage room: From Tom Booth I have received
information/photo of access to luggage room from a separate locker.
Windshield: Windshield differs from other S-B,
but was found as is in the barn.
Inner wing rear: Will be made to fit as soon as possi-ble.
Taillight: Taillight is incorrect and will be
replaced as soon as found, still searching.
Car top: During restoration time.
Concerning ads, catalogue: Enclosed is the article from The Car, June
16, 1915 and Norwegian Ads. Further more is enclosed Sales catalog with
these artistic drawings. If this is new material I am happy to bring it
to you.
Concerning next Scripps-Booth Registers:
1. For a rainy day…This clipping from “The Horseless Age” June 16,
1915 under “New Parts & Accessories” the new staggering “Frey U-Can-Rain
Shield” is being demonstrated on a C Model.
2. Alternative energy…Photo shows an S-B with regis-tration no.
A 797 with carbide cans as alternative fuel arrangement during a gas crises
in Norway 1917-18. These cans with carbide did replaced fuel for at least
50 kilometers driving. Small electric coupes made big sales even they were
expensive cars to drive and to own and could not go by high speed. To illustrate
the crises I have been told that all lighthouses except main gate where
turned off along the long coastline of Nor-way, there where hundreds of
them.
Concerning D Model: Enclosed is a photo of the
unrestored D model in Norway (originally registered with no. A 758) owned
by a friend of mine. As I told you earlier this car broke a piston in 1927
and was later stored in a barn. Unfortunately the piston did also broke
engine block, and the Ferro engine is totally damaged. The car is most original
including upholstery. My friend is aware of you organization and will contact
you himself in the future. I do know he is desperately seeking a new engine.
Concerning remains of another S-B: In springtime
I received information remains of a later S-B model. Remains were sold at
a swap meet in Norway some years ago (4-5). Main parts torpedo, hood, radiator
shell, steering wheel… where sold to a bus restoring project. I have been
talking to the salesman butt he has been unable to recall the buyer. The
bus restoring project seems not yet been fulfilled while this is unknown by
pilots. The car seems to have been an S-B/GM car Series B with a 6-cylinder
Northway engine still available with transmission. The salesman found the
remains in a wrecking yard, which now is history. If I do get new information
I would be glad to inform the register.
Lately I received information of an S-B model G. The
owner did find remains (photo) as a stationary engine. Remains are as you
can see radiator, hood, Mason Motor and front frame. Stationary engine has
been used on his father’s farm and now been restarted. Id number on firewall
is missing; motor id number will be searched for. The owner will present
pictures later to my address. Un-fortunately there are no other remains of
the cars.
From Tom Booth I have received copies of S-B news-letter
No. 5 and 6. I do look forward to your posting of early newsletters on the
web site. I would be most obliged if you could send copy of parts list and
instruction manual 1916 (48 pages).
In mid summertime 2001 there will be a major VC race
in Norway to celebrate the first automobile tourist Mr. Bedouin from Nederland’s
visiting Norway 100 years ago. I hope to enjoy this race with my S-B. Yours
faithfully, Akel Erlend Kopperud – 26 October 2000
A 30 YEAR SEARCH ENDS ON THE “WWW”
Sep 5, 2001 Subject: 1915-1916-1917 Scripps-Booth
Hello, I have just received a Scripps-Booth and I am
interested in selling it. I know the car is a C-model, and it good condition
with some minor blemishes. I don't know where to find the serial number
or model number so any help locating it would be greatly appreciated. Furthermore,
I am interested as to what the average worth of this vehicle may be. I have
contacted museum curators and they didn't know much about the car. I thank
you for you time; any information about the car would be greatly appreciated.
Frank, Bakersfield California
Hi Frank - Good to hear from you. I checked to see
if any of the on-price guides cover that far back - and they don't. Do you
know anything about the history of this car? The reason I ask is, there was
a 1918 Scripps-Booth Model G Roadster for sale with a photo printed in the
HORSELESS CARRIAGE GAZETTE May/June 1983 by a Bill Gran from Bakersfield.
This car was an older restoration in good condition, five new Firestone NON-SKID
tires, Houk Wire Wheels, new clutch, mechanically sound, with good paint.
I have never heard of another Scripps-Booth in the Bakersfield area and have
not heard anything from anyone who owns this car today? I get up to the Bakersfield's
HCCA Swapmeet every February for the past 6-7 years and ask around there
if anybody remembers an S-B? Could this be the car you know have? A
Model C and G appears the same. The major external difference is the G has
the gas tank under the frame in rear, while the C has the tank in the cowl
in front of dash.
As far as values, I do have a 1915-18 Chevrolet Model
H/F/FA Royal Mail Price Guide [1998], with the Scripps-Booth C & G roadster
being about as a desirable car.
Year
Condition
6 -
5 - 4 - 3 -
2 - 1
1915 800 2500 4200 9200 16100 23000
1916 650 2199 3599 7000 13300 19000
1917 640 2150 3600 6800 11900 17000
If your car were built before Jan 1, 1916 it would
be worth what the 1915 models are because the Horseless Carriage Club would
then recognize it. Do you have a clear title for this car? The Title should
have the engine number on it? The Model C engine # is located on the right
front side of crankcase at about the base of #1 cylinder while the G should
be stamped on flywheel.
I live in Monrovia - only 2 hours south of Bakersfield
and could come up some weekend to see your car and tell you more about it.
I have been looking for a 1918 Model G to purchase. I am particularly fond
of the 1918 Models, because I have a 1918 Chevrolet Model D-5 "EIGHT" Touring
car already and would like a smaller roadster built that same year. Also
the 1918 Model G was built during the same period that Chevrolet owned the
Scripps-Booth Company. So I am hoping that what you have is a Model G and
not the Model C. The Model C or G nameplate is on a plate nailed to bottom
of right seat kickboard - but is often missing.
Please let me know what you find? Gas tank location?
What type of starter? When I can visit you?
Frank then called me on the phone Thursday night and
said his car is that same 1918 Model G with the Non-Skid tires. I
asked when I could inspect it, and he said Sunday - so we agreed to meet
at 10 AM in Bakersfield. I called Pat McGowen to see if he wanted to check
out with me an S-B with a 1918 Chev 4 engine, and Pat said "You Bet!"
HAPPY HOLIDAYS
Well, my Model G Saga will have to wait till later.
Remember, the Scripps-Booth Website is access at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~scrippsbooth/
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